Much at stake in Nadal vs. Djokovic ATP World Tour Finals showdown

Good thoughts in the article, Scoop.

Novak won 6-3 6-4.

I didnt watch the whole match, but it appeared to me Nadal was not aggressive enough for most of the match. He became aggressive in the last couple of games. If he had played like that the whole match, the match would have been much more competitive. The problem is, his game is naturally not that aggressive. He has to mentally condition himself to be in that mode — and thats why he cannot be reliably, consistently in that mode. He goes back to defensive tennis. And he becomes dejected against Djoko, that his top spin forehands are having no effect — one is because of the court, and the other is because Novak knows how to respond to them better than perhaps anybody else.

Nobody has been able to defeat Nadal the way Novak does. Rafa did win all the 4 matches here in indoor hard — so he was not a full minnow. But he was psychologically out in this match, he is afraid of Novak.

I think by the time their careers end, Novak may have a head-to-head advantage against both Fed (Very close already), and Nadal (maybe in 2 years).

Btw, again a chance to brag — my picks for this whole tournament were completely spot on!

Well, I didn’t see the whole match, but I saw the last game at 5-4 Djoko on his serve and on the first match point, 40-30, Djoko dug a neat little forehand drop shot and Nadal chased it down and two-handed a short backhand winner. Then Nadal did his fist and knee pump and he looked energized and really ready to fight. But Djoko aced him on the next point and then proceeded to put Nadal away.

Nadal’s game just looks neanderthal compared to Djoko’s sleek game. Nadal’s got the balding thing going on when he’s wearing his head band and Djoko just looks the fitter, cleaner hitter. But Nadal took him out in the more important matches this year. I think it’s very premature to talk a Djoko Grand Slam when he only won the first slam this year.

Scoop, who’s JJ in your list? Jarmere Jenkins?

I doubt the GS of men’s tennis by either Rafa or Novak. Novak has a streak going, but it maybe at the wrong time. After Davis Cup he maybe too tired by the time Oz rolls around; though there is good time off. Rafa and Novak have equal chances to win Australia, with a slight edge to Novak because Australia can go indoor with the roof.

But everyone who has counted Rafa out all these years are greatly surprised by his career achievements and he can still win majors. I give Rafa the edge at RG, Wimbledon and the US opens. Novak can’t move on grass without the illegal spikes. He slips and falls when he goes into the split position.

The only negative on Rafa is he is not that good indoor, compared to some of the top ten. But in the end, it will matter the least. Remember, only Rafa has won grand slams on all surfaces in a single season. I don’t see Novak doing OZ, RG, Wimbledon or RG, Wimbledon, US in the future. The chance a player comes back after 2 seasons of winning only 1 major and winning 2 or 3 is quite slim; though Rafa did do it this year. It’s asking a lot of Djoker and I don’t see it.

Gustarhymes

These indoor results have nothing to do with any GS (esp for Rafa, who plays LOT weaker indoors).

Conditions and surface are too different.

From mental aspect maybe bit – but this bit does not matter.

You like almost every player, Scoop. You’re too enthusiastic.

I don’t trust these kind of players. Ferrer, Djokovic, Nadal. Doping comes on my mind when I watch them.

Scoop, you’re ridiculous. 1 win in a battle does not win the war. Djoker is too old to get to double digit majors even. Next year is his last prime year. I agree he can retake #1, but he is not winning 3 majors again; 1 or 2 at best. I don’t see how he slayed Fed and Nadal. He is not going to be the GOAT by quantity or quality of majors. He needs to win 2 RG, 1 more Wimbledon and 1 more US Open to equal Nadal’s qualitative career and he is too far away from Fed’s 17. he has only beaten an old Federer. His streak against Nadal is impressive, but he cheated at Wimbledon with spikegate, and his exposure in the later 3 rounds showed itself. Not likely to win Wimbledon.
I like the way he plays tennis. Very smart, methodical, with very balanced strokes and power to boot; a high level pusher. I like the fact he has willpower and he is disciplined never to run around his backhand. But he does this because of a lack of natural speed. His stretching and splitting, though a weapon, is or will be his greatest weakness also. The stretching will decrease the chances of longevity, as his style is quite physical. Something the pundits will not agree with; but I will be right in the long run. Djoker gets to 8 or 9 majors at most. Only 6 at 26; Fails to get to 10! I’ll bet the house on it.
Meanwhile, Rafa who was supposedly only a clay court player defied all expectations and became a GOAT candidate as I predicted. This is in spite of squandering his opportunities in 2009 and 2012 when he overplayed and got injured. had he dedicated himself less to Davis Cup, he would have done even better. And, none of you on this website or Tennis Week prior will admit that many of you underestimated him. Where is the old D-man?

gusta

Gusta — yes lets bet the house on this. I am willing to bet real money on this — whether Djokovic can go double digit on the slam count!!!

Scoop, good to see you supporting Djokovic, my favorite player for the past 4 years. I started supporting him as an underdog. He used to be the perennial #3, always unable to beat Fed and Nadal consistently. He then started to loose to Murray too. Thats when I started supporting him. Dont remember it was 2009 or something. I used to see him suffering with breathing on the court. I dont know why, but I just got an emotional bond with him. Since then he is my #1 favorite player. (just like Sampras used to be my favorite player in the mid-90s)

I love Djokovic and believe he will do great things.

But calendar year grand slam is a little too difficult I think. Because I think Novak gets a little nervous mentally — even though since the beginning of 2011 he has improved, he is still not as strong as Nadal’s mental strength for example. (except for 2011)

Secondly I do agree with Gusta about physical longevity. Djokovic stresses his body even more than Nadal. He bends like I have seen only circus performers do. Its almost too hard to believe the replays when you see him bend the legs in a weird position, his back inclined in a weird position, doing splits and still hitting great shots. Sometimes after watching the replay I feel — “oh boy! Did he crack a bone or injure himself there!? Will he be able to stand up??” 🙂

He may have injury problems in year or two just like Nadal’s knee. I hope they dont happen, but they could.

I think he will get to atleast 10 slams, he could get to 12-13.

To enter the GOAT debate, he would have to hit 17 in my book, which is almost impossible for him now. The problem is he was overshadowed by Fed and Nadal, two GOATs until 2011. He was born at the wrong time. He could have ruled in the 90s. I am doubtful whether Nadal can beat Sampras on hardcourts — probably not — but have no doubts that Djokovic could have beaten Sampras. He has Nadal’s defense as well as amazing attacking baseline play and amazing returns, much better than Nadal’s — just like Agassi. Djokovic is definitely superior to Sampras on hard courts (but would have lost to Sampras on grass).

I think Novak should try and improve his grass court play — to win more slams. And once he beats Nadal at RG, hopefully in 2014, he would start ruling RG like AO.

Did not pay that bet up with Adam Zagoria, I believe, because we did not exchange telephone numbers or emails. If you remember, we’re sitting in the stadium and Hewitt won the first set against Delpo and I said, “There’s no way Delpo’s going to lose this match” and Zagoria offered to bet me a steak dinner. Now normally I don’t even eat steak, but what the hell, I thought, there’s no way I can lose this bet.

And then Delpo went up 2 sets to 1 and I saw Zagoria downstairs in Ashe and he said something like, “Looks like you’re going to win the bet.” And then Delpo dumps the last two sets. I’m a little afraid this guy is going to hunt me down. Remember he was talking about paying like $149 for a steak meal at Peter Luger’s. Last time I paid that much at a restaurant, I also got to sleep with the waitress.

I think 2011 was a 1 time only kind of year for Novak… The brand of tennis he plays is physically grueling & his body will start breaking down here in the near future… Rafa’s 2013 wasn’t even as good as his 2010 which says something… Rafa may not be what he once was which also says something but when healthy & in TOP FORM, he’s shown time & time again, he’s the best player in the world & tennis’s most amazing phenom ever… Djokovic could regain the edge in the rivalry for a while but Rafa would eventually surpass him yet again & vice versa… These 2 evenly matched players will both have their swings of having the momentum… Novak is the more technically skilled & natural player while Rafa has more variety, the more gifted athlete, is better able to adjust tactics to overcome an opponent & most importantly the mentally stronger player BY FAR… Novak has & always will come apart in big matches against a player who can stand up to his amazing “in the zone” level of play which Rafa has shown time & time again… Novak can’t even be mentioned in the GOAT category next to Rafa, Roger & others for several reasons: number of slams, record in GS Finals which is only 50%, no career GS etc… He’s the #3 player of the Best Era in Men’s Tennis Era which in itself says a lot because in any other era, he truly would have dominated being the incredible, complete tennis machine that he is… Fact is, he like many others had the unfortunate pleasure of playing at the same time as 2 of the top 3 players in history arguably… I don’t see Novak dominating for years to come because he’s getting older & his game’s not nearly as fluid as Roger’s… For all the talk about Rafa declining, he wins at least 1 slam per year for going on 10 years in a row which is just another of his numerous UNPRECEDENTED FEATS… The most amazing athlete to go along with being the most fierce competitor in the sport’s history is a combintion that has already been shown to be incapable of being surpassed for the long-haul… I acknowledge Djokovic’s undeniable greatness but his fragile mental state is going to rear it’s head & deny him from ever reaching the all time level of a Rafa IMO!!

Gusta,

You are going back on your original “Djoko” cannot win 10 slams decree. Don’t give me Djoko has to win certain slams. A slam is a slam. If Djoko wins three more Aussies and a French, that’s 10 in my book.

Now do you want to make the bet for Indian buffet–I’m not eating Peter Luger’s–or not. You either believe Djoko isn’t going to win 10 or you don’t. Your man Rafa has benefited greatly from not having to play Wimbledon on real grass. Even Mats Wilander said if Rafa played Wimbledon when Mats played, there’s no way he’d come close to winning Wimbledon. I don’t think for a second that if Rafa entered Newport on their grass courts next year, he’d beat Hewitt or Mahut.

If Novak achieves 10 majors, he is not likely to be the GOAT. He would need two RGs, one more US, and one more Wimbledon to be in running. If he had won a Djoker slam back in 2012 RGs, then he might already be there. But he didn’t and therefore isn’t the GOAT. And now will never be.

Credit to Novak for doing what he did to Rafa in 2011 & for being to this day the ONLY PLAYER who can defeat Rafa regularly however time is running out for him to be in the Roger/Rafa category all time… The last few years were his best chance to truly take over the sport & guess what HE DIDN’T… Murray is a player who can beat him regularly in any significant match which has been proven & if Del Po ever truly awakens, Novak, Rafa etc. all better look the hell out… So many dwell solely on 2011 yet overlook the entire rivalry between Rafa & Novak including the last 2 years which clearly excluding 2011 has been heavily on Rafa’s side… I think there are just many out there who resent Rafa for various reasons & who don’t want to acknowledge the fact that he’s THE MOST AMAZING PLAYER the sport will ever see hence the ONCE IN THIS OR ANY LIFETIME PHENOM… He does things on a tennis court that nobody else can do & he does them with ease! Since, he doesn’t play a pure brand of Tennis it makes many fans & media members resent him & wish for someone to put him out of the picture… NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Rafa’s record against the other members of the Big 4 especially in Grand Slams ENDS ALL DISCUSSION about who the REAL GREATEST is!!