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Sock Flashback in Miami: I Don’t Need A New Coaching Voice
77 Comments · Posted by Scoop Malinowski in Bios
At the Miami Open this year, the day before his showdown with Rafael Nadal, I asked Jack Sock if he felt secure with Troy Hahn as his coach or if he needed to add a new coach, a new voice, who has experience at the ATP World Tour level. Here is the exchange…
Q. You’re obviously really close to beating those top guys. Do you think you’re ready to do it right now, or do you think you might need a little extra advice from maybe some kind of coach who really knows exactly what it takes to beat those guys?
JACK SOCK: I think it’s there. I’ve had chances in the past against some of those guys. No, I don’t think I need any more time. I think I’m ready to beat them.
I think it takes a great match obviously on my end. That’s where their experience kicks in. What I’m trying to do with some of the younger guys now, they’ve been doing it for ten plus years now – a lot of them.
Experience definitely is an advantage for them in some of those situations were tennis-wise I think I’m definitely ready to beat them.
——————
Of course, Sock was wrong as he lost to Nadal in straight sets in Miami and again on red clay in Rome. Sock also lost yesterday to Jiri Vesely in straight sets and is out of Roland Garros. Clearly, Sock miscalculated his capacity and now the question looms again. Is it time for Sock to make a coaching change – or at least keep Troy Hahn and add a co-coach, such as a former player who has played and beaten some of today’s top ten ATP standouts, with James Blake, Mardy Fish and Andy Roddick being the most worthy candidates of being added to Team Sock.
Is Sock’s loyalty and devotion to Hahn stifling his career and his progress as a professional player? Does Hahn really know what it takes to strategize against players well beyond his own playing level?
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1 2 Next »Scoop Malinowski · May 30, 2017 at 11:15 am
Sock has definitely hit a stagnation point. Sometimes change is necessary.
Chazz · May 30, 2017 at 11:26 am
Yeah, I hope he is feeling a bit of desperation because he can’t go into Wimbledon and the US Open playing like this when he has that much talent/athleticism.
Scoop Malinowski · May 30, 2017 at 11:28 am
If Agassi doesn't last with Djokovic, Sock should hire Agassi asap.
Chazz · May 30, 2017 at 11:29 am
What does he need to improve?
Conditioning
Mental toughness
Backhand
In that order, in my opinion. He’s 24, there’s time to get on track before his prime but he needs a coach that can take him there.
scoopmalinowski · May 30, 2017 at 12:37 pm
I think former ATP players can see things in modern pro players than Hahn cant. If Federer always stuck with only Luthi as his only coach would he be where he is now? I think not.
Doogie · May 30, 2017 at 6:26 pm
First of all he has to change his work ethic.
Right now he is in “his comfort zone”. The problem is: His comfort zone is not enough; not enough practice, choice of feed, living generally as a top player.
Hahn does not take him out of his zone – a good/star coach would do it immediately.
At this point he reached the top of his talent – if he wants to go further he has to start working really hard.
Scoop Malinowski · May 30, 2017 at 6:57 pm
He actually does work hard. I have been told that by his former fitness coach who is now with Tiafoe. He was shoddy at training years ago but changed it before 2015. Fitness is not the issue. It's receiving top level coaching advice. Sock is a strong minded guy like his pal Kyrgios and they both like to play and run their careers THEIR WAY. Free spirits do not respond well to authority. Rios, young Agassi, Safin, etc.
Chazz · May 30, 2017 at 7:09 pm
He probably works hard but the quote from his would-be R2 opponent was pretty telling. He is fast, athletic and powerful but can definitely be more fit so he can play well in lengthy grand slam matches. He and Kyrgios do have that rebellious freewheeling attitude. How would he do with a drill sergeant coach? Or is he too loyal to Hahn to drop him?
Andrew Miller · May 30, 2017 at 8:24 pm
Sock isn’t alone, most USA men lost. This is an awful showing.
Only Isner, Johnson are still around? Isner follows up his excellent showing in Rome.
Maybe some of the usa guys will put up a good doubles tournament. They should stick around and play the dubs and the mixed and make a tournament of it.
Sheesh what happened to them. Is this because they didn’t play the clay season? Maybe they avoid it because of the costs.
I read, honestly it was awful, Nicole Gibbs take on the expenses on tour. It’s horrible. I used to think that it was only the challengers, but it’s not true. And Gibbs is pretty good.
Andrew Miller · May 30, 2017 at 8:28 pm
Sock was having a decent year until only recently. I’m surprised his clay season is so bad
I’m also concerned the USA men will lose major ground in rankings. They basically skipped the clay season, kind of; there’s no guarantee on grass; and that leaves them fighting for their rankings lives during the hard court swing.
Let the battles begin?
britbox · May 30, 2017 at 8:45 pm
I'm not sure the Agassi/Djokovic combo will be anything other than a short term relationship. I think Agassi (and Sampras, if he ever feels the inclination to get involved with side of the tour) would both be better off feeling out the coaching side of things out with a player based in North America.
Dan Markowitz · May 30, 2017 at 10:31 pm
Hahn will be gone soon, mark my words. Sock has been floundering for a while now so someone has to take the hit and it’s not going to be Sock.
The only guy who stayed with his coach through thick and thin is Blake and Blake was with Brian Barker from when he was a kid. Hahn was not with Sock that long.
Does anyone else find Sock’s attitude on the court off-putting? I certainly do. He usually has that smile on his face especially when he’s losing that says to me, “How’s this guy beating me?” or “This is a joke. This guy doesn’t have nearly the amount of talent I do.”
Sock’s backhand is always going to hold him back. He doesn’t shape it so he can’t hit angle backhand’s yet. He’s the one who needs Agassi the most. Because that was Andre’s bread and butter shot.
Andrew Miller · May 30, 2017 at 11:27 pm
Agassi has the patience to guide Sock’s backhand? Doubtful. Dan I bet he can diagnose it in a secons but doubt he can teach it. Players HATE changing their groundies, even though it’s possible – Spadea, Fish, Roddick, Tiafoe all changed a major groundstroke. Sampras as a teenager, Tiafoe as a teenager, Spadea and Fish in their mid twenties?
Maybe he still has time to modify it and make it a more reliable shot.
You know I’m no longer convinced Agassi and Sampras care much about USA men’s tennis prospects. They may care more than I realize, but perhaps they see the ultra greats right now who have passed their records like Nadal, Federer, Djoker and say hey ill help them because they don’t threaten my record. Sampras attends Federer matches to cheer on the guy that breaks his records.
But they seem to steer clear of the USA men. Maybe they want to remain legends or maybe it’s just too close to home and if they fail with USA men it’s a smudge on their resume. Someone else here at TP said that, basically you coach Djokovic and your own status is intact if you or he fails. You coach Sock and there’s no traction and it’s a cautionary tale.
Only Courier, Connors have waded into USA men’s tennis. No Chang either. Maybe it’s a money thing but seems like their legacy is at stake and they don’t want to risk it.
catherine · May 31, 2017 at 3:19 am
It seems to be now, with a top player, they retire and the next question is – when are you going to start coaching ? That wasn’t the case in previous generations.Can’t see that it’s a necessary progression at all. Some retired champs just don’t want to coach.
Agassi – I wouldn’t be surprised if Djokovic is his only foray into the area.
Expenses – yes, they’re huge nowadays but costs in everything have risen as well and the teams payers lug around with them nowadays don’t come cheap. Everyone wants their pay slip at the end of the day.
Chazz · May 31, 2017 at 8:33 am
Dan, Sock sometimes has a bad attitude, sometime doesn’t. I am not sure what his smile means but if he is sarcastic like me then it’s more like “how the hell did I hit such a terribly stupid shot, that was just laughable”. I sometimes think his mental weakness is that he is in a neverending battle with himself. I just don’t know if I would conclude that he thinks his opponent is a joke.
What bothers me more is when he disputes line calls more often when he is losing and acts like he is getting screwed by the umpire even though he is clearly wrong. I haven’t seen him do as much of that lately which is an improvement.
Scoop Malinowski · May 31, 2017 at 9:20 am
Catherine I agree Agassi will be ultra selective who he decides to work with – Lendl turned down Berdych who was top ten – these super legend coaches are only interested in players that can win majors and be no 1. I don't see Agassi working with Sock because though he is capable of winning a GS it's very unlikely at this point.
Scoop Malinowski · May 31, 2017 at 9:25 am
Why not Sock with Fish? Fish had a great backhand. Fish helped Harrison a few years ago. It's strange how Fish Roddick Spadea and Blake are not called on. Agassi Chang and Pete don't seem too interested in helping USA tennis either. USA Tennis needs to stick together. I enjoy Sock's expressions on court whatever they are anything is better than a stoic android player.
Scoop Malinowski · May 31, 2017 at 9:29 am
Britbox: Andre and Djokovic is an unknown regarding how they connect and hit it off. To both meet and get to know each other in a hurricane like Roland Garros is not the best way to create a chemistry. Whatever happens we outsiders will probably never know the truth if they don't stay together.
Dan Markowitz · May 31, 2017 at 3:42 pm
When a player does what Coric did today after losing match to SteveJo (smashing his racquet repeatedly against the clay) he should be suspended through the next slam. That was a terrible reaction and it shouldn’t be tolerated by the ATP.
Andrew Miller · May 31, 2017 at 5:13 pm
Steve Johnson earned it. Glad to see him defeat Coric too.
Andrew Miller · May 31, 2017 at 5:14 pm
Tsonga loses! These lower level seed losses are going to ripple up the chain. The men’s side might not play out to the top seeds advantage, no matter how unstoppable I see Nadal.
Andrew Miller · May 31, 2017 at 5:16 pm
Sadly the era of legend coaches has been awful for Fish, Spadea, other USA men that have wisdom for top USA men’s players. It’s like everyone wants a super low level no name coach or an elite Agassi like coach.
jg · May 31, 2017 at 6:45 pm
What about Roddick coaching Sock?
Dan Markowitz · May 31, 2017 at 8:49 pm
Jg,
I think you’re onto something. ARod improved his backhand as a veteran player and I think Sock needs a lot of ARod’s determination, grit and competitiveness. I think Hahn lets Sock get away with a lot of flaky behavior that ARod would call him out on. But I don’t think ARod has any interest in coaching unlike Blake, Fish, Ginepri and Dent.
Andrew Miller · May 31, 2017 at 9:40 pm
Roddick may wait. He may not want to coach against players from his era like Federer. That would be a bit strange for him.
Scoop Malinowski · May 31, 2017 at 11:00 pm
Coric was really really upset by this loss. He should have shown respect to what Johnson was going through. I guess Coric really had big expectations for himself and feels he let this one off the hook but Johnson is an underrated player by fans the press and also other players I guess.
Scoop Malinowski · May 31, 2017 at 11:01 pm
Tsonga lost to Renzo Olivo who I watched at Sarasota Open two years ago. I think Olivo beat Russell he definitely caught my attention and now finally he's breaking out. Haven't had one of these shock losses by a top player to a total obscurity in years at a GS. Very rare. Olivo was 0-6 in his last six ATP Tour level matches.
Gaurang · June 1, 2017 at 4:29 am
Mardy Fish is coaching Donaldson. He is actually listed as his coact on Donaldson’s ATP Profile page. (afraid of putting the link as the comment will go into moderation 😉 )
Andrew, I dont think Agassi/Sampras dont coach US players just so that their records are not broken. My theory is:
Sampras: He does not want to go traveling for coaching. He has offerred in the past that if some young players come to his hometown he can give advise and hit with them. But he is just not interested in spending effort in travelling and formally coaching someone. He believes he has already done his share of hard work for this lifetime, and he wants to take it easy for the rest of it.
Agassi: Some of the same things apply to Agassi as well, though I believe he will end up helping more American players in the future as he gets older. He took this stint with Djokovic, because Djokovic is obviously one of the greatest players in history, and he believes he can give his advise to make him come back to the top. If he succeeds, Agassi will again go into the history books. This experience cannot be gotten from any other US player. Coaching Sock is not even 1% as prestigious as coaching Djokovic. Agassi also has a fancy for Djokovic as his game is quite similar to his own, and that he also has a good fun-loving personality just like him.
Scoop Malinowski · June 1, 2017 at 9:03 am
Gaurang; It's Gambill who is Donaldson's coach. Pete said in an interview last year he wasn't interested in coaching a player but he also left the door open to the possibility saying "I wouldn't rule it out." I can see Pete wanting to be back into the scene at some point just to be a part of the Tour again and to relive the wonderful experience that it was. I think Pete is getting that itch and that comment about not ruling it out shows that Pete is interested. Agassi also is seeing how his rivals Becker, Goran and Chang are enjoying being a part of the Tour again and it's easy to see Andre being back involved in tennis again.
Andrew Miller · June 1, 2017 at 9:10 am
Gaurang, on Agassi those points all make more sense, that’s a good analysis on why Agassi would take a small risk and coach Djokovic. Djokovic copied the Agassi backhand completely, so in some ways it’s coaching a better version of himself.
Andrew Miller · June 1, 2017 at 9:13 am
Scoop pick Khachanov is about to send Berdych packing. Lendl’s decision not to coach Berdych is looking pretty sound these days, whatever his reasons, one of which was probably his uneasiness with going home to coach the Birdman, another cash, another Berdych’s prospects
Berdych, enigma.
mrzz · June 1, 2017 at 9:26 am
@britbox Guys, reading Scoop´s responses in this thread it was obvious that there was something else going on, checked out and those are (as expected) the responses to the comments of his blog at Tennis-Prose Home. As a suggestion, to make it easier to forum regulars to know what is going on, is it possible to include a warning on those posts, like "blog comment response", with a link to the original blog? This might help/stimulate forum users to go directly to the comments box (helping merge the two communities).
Course we could have a specific thread absorbing all blog comments — thus forcing those comments to come through the board, but it might interfere with something that it is already working fine for a group. Maybe creating an option to answer through the board (yeah, it is spurious, as it leads to the same result, but users like freedom) could naturally attract commenters to the boards…
Chazz · June 1, 2017 at 9:26 am
I’m getting way ahead of myself here but with Johnny Isner moving into the 3rd round, his draw looks favorable all the way to the final if Klizan can win two more sets and take out Murray today. Likely opponents for Izzy if Murray loses:
R3: Khachanov
R4: del Potro
QF: Nishikori, Chung or Cuevas
SF: Wawrinka, Kyrgios or Cilic
Scoop Malinowski · June 1, 2017 at 9:30 am
Berdych has struggled all year. The real sign that he is off this year was blowing that huge lead of like 61 52 to Nishioka in IW. That was devastating and it showed Berdych is not the force he used to be. Since that loss he has not scored any memorable big wins. He had the great battle with Federer in Miami but he fell just short. Berdych could be damaged goods now and on the slow gradual fade away. Khachanov is a future top ten player and only getting better by the month. Khachanov is coached by Galo Blanco who helpd put Raonic on the map.
catherine · June 1, 2017 at 9:43 am
mrzz
Your suggestions are way too complicated. It works fine the way it is.
As I mentioned before to Scoop before T-P was updated, serendipity is one of the attractions of this site. Doesn’t take much effort to scroll through comments and you soon get to know what conversation is going on where.
Real conversations wander all over the place. These ones do too.
And I am not a ‘guy’. Just saying.
Hartt · June 1, 2017 at 10:07 am
As a fan of Karen Khachanov, I struggled with a poor stream to watch his match. He usually is aggressive, going for his shots, so when he is fairly consistent in a match he is fun to watch. Today he won in SS against Berdych. What was especially impressive is that he had 51 winners to 20 UFEs. Even accounting for the 12 aces in the winners column, that is a terrific ratio.
I like both Karen and Berdy, but Karen represents the future and Berdy, unfortunately, looks more and more like he represents the past.
catherine · June 1, 2017 at 10:26 am
Hartt –
I gather that’s one of the reasons Lendl did not want to coach Berdych – he felt B was too set in his ways for a coach to make a great deal of difference at this point.
Obviously didn’t feel the same way about Murray 🙂
catherine · June 1, 2017 at 10:55 am
Out goes Bouchard; Radwanska struggles on
Chazz · June 1, 2017 at 11:31 am
Klizan blows a chance to push Murray to a 5th set, was up a break in the 4th. The path doesn’t look as good for Isner now with Murray a likely 4th round opponent (if he beats Khachanov).
Kyrgios in trouble against Anderson. Already smashing racquets.
Scoop Malinowski · June 1, 2017 at 11:57 am
Or Lendl didn't believe Berdych has what is needed to win a GS in this day and age. Legends like Lendl are not going to waste their time on a player they don't believe in.
Hartt · June 1, 2017 at 12:16 pm
You could see many reasons why Lendl would not want to take on Berdych. From Ivan’s point of view, he was making sacrifices to coach, being away from his family and less time for golf, so the player had to be capable of great things. And Berdy, at that stage of his career, was not that player.
Scoop Malinowski · June 1, 2017 at 12:33 pm
I think that loss to Federer really killed Berd. He had the mps and that kind of win would have really boosted his lowered confidence. He needed that win. Berdych should consider doubles and mixed doubles for a change of pace and routine.
Andrew Miller · June 1, 2017 at 1:50 pm
If Lendl doesn’t want anything to do with Berdych, then Agassi won’t want anything to do with Sock etc. It will take a miracle for USA men to win a slam title without access to the wisdom of those guys that have been there. Basically, legends don’t join the camps of lower potential players from Scoops’ argument.
A miracle.
Go Isner!
Scoop Malinowski · June 1, 2017 at 3:19 pm
Goran w Cilic. Edberg w Fed. Korda w Stepanek. Wilander w Safin. Legends dont mess around.
Chazz · June 1, 2017 at 3:36 pm
Lots of good matchups coming up in R3:
Murray-del Potro
Isner-Khachanov
Chung-Nishikori
Wawrinka-Fognini
Thiem-Johnson
Schwartzman-Djokovic
On the women’s side, sounds like Keys re-aggravated her wrist injury in her 3 set loss.
Dan Markowitz · June 1, 2017 at 3:37 pm
How about Kev Anderson!!? This guy is playing top 20 tennis again, maybe top 10. Knocks off Kyrgios rather easily. This guy is a real wildcard to do damage at this event. I can even see him winning it if he didn’t have to play Rafa.
catherine · June 1, 2017 at 5:04 pm
Bad news about Madison if true – wrist injuries can end careers.
Hartt · June 1, 2017 at 6:57 pm
The match with Keys was hard to see. After her wrist was taped she fought gamely but did not have much of a chance. Let’s hope the injury is not serious. After her wrist surgery this is the last thing Maddie needs.
Andrew Miller · June 1, 2017 at 7:20 pm
Korda a legend? Sorry Scoop, forever a cheater who cheated Rios out of a slam. Rios froze up, but in a fair world and some more confidence on that day he would have taken Korda out.
Andrew Miller · June 1, 2017 at 7:40 pm
Sorry to see Cirstea, Almagro out.