Remember, it was Lopez who first exposed the crack in the Djokovic armor

Duke Carnoustie writes:

I still think it's the two days of the Querrey match that changed everything. Of course, Djoker, still won in Canada and got to the U.S. Open final. Those are results he wouldn't get now.

Duke Carnoustie writes:

Kozlov, Fritz, Klahn, McDonald and Fratangelo all win at Wimbledon. Ram defeats Opelka and Sandgren takes down Mmoh as well.

catherine writes:

Andrew – Yes you're right, not just about tennis players but other people as well whose talent seems to desert them. Sometimes no point in looking around for obvious solutions – either retire or take a long break, which has been known, or carry on, trying not to ruminate,and let the unconscious do its work. We just haven't access to what's going on in there and stretching out on a couch isn't for everyone and isn't always helpful. I don't get the feeling Angie introspects that much which is probably best for her. It seems Agassi will be around at W'don for Djokovic. Could be slippery courts at Eastbourne – rain threatening. A few strategic retirements ?

Lemme see if I have your premise right – Feliciano Lopez taking a set off Djokovic, followed by a subsequent SIGHT ISSUE, ie, an inablity to SEE due to eye irritation caused by his contract lenses, MAY have been the beginning of Djokovic's downfall? Seriously? And do you not think man has been to the moon? Sorry, but if you've ever worn contacts you know that if the eye is irritated – you have to take them out and you can't see. Djokovic apparently didn't have a pair of eye glasses with him – or can't play wearing his glasses. That whole not being able to see thing was just that – he couldn't see. I don't think it was a sign of anything other than – he couldn't see that day.

Djokovic's bigger problem is his personal life seems to be imploding – despite a 2nd child being on the way – and that he stopped eating meat "for ethical reasons." Well, I have yet to hear of an elite athlete who's stayed at the top by eating a vegan diet and only getting protein from "eggs and occasionally fish." My advice to Nole – set your ethics aside for the next 4-5 years and have a freaking steak. You're not getting any younger and you're not as talented and versatile as Roger Federer. You've got one game plan – and that's predicated on your fitness and stamina, so tell the PETA folks you're putting your ethics on hold for a while because your GOAT dreams are going up in smoke – and not even tasty barbecue smoke.

Andrew Miller writes:

Nice to see Jay Clarke in qualies at Wimbledon versus Ymer. Clarke is from the UK and when the UK press went on and on about how there was no one after Murray as a successor here was this junior plugging away and doing well and the lta could care less. We talk about the usta and really smack it, but the lta seems far, far worse. It's a low performance organization whose greatest asset is coach Leon for Davis cup. They should put him on top of the lta because it sucks.

catherine writes:

Andrew – the next LTA chief is David LLoyd's son (and that does make me feel old) who is only in his early 40s so we will see how that works out. David was a constant and vitriolic critic of the LTA. But as I've said before, I really don't think the LTA has much to do with emerging British talent. It administers/promotes the game and that's about all. Leon's a good coach but that doesn't mean he'd be any good at heading an organisation – probably not. There's more decentralising now which is a good trend. One consequence is that young players are more likely to stay with their coaches than be rushed off to some power house in London where they may well not thrive. In another sport, the Olympic Gold medallist heptathlete Jessica Ennis grew up and developed in Sheffield with the same coach from ten years old. And she didn't do too badly.

I really don't understand comments like this. Novak was playing in Australia wasn't he? As I recall Roger and Rafa still decided to compete, they didn't run and hide. Not sure how we get to the assumption of either of them being scared. In any case you could easily flip that "observation" and say it shows how lucky Novak has been that he hasn't had to contend with an injury free Federer or Nadal and has been free to "steal" slams. Now they're fit, they're back, they're dominating. For what it's worth, I don't think either of those speculations (yours and mine) are correct. It's sports, these things just happen. Let's try to stop developing fantasy "theories" that have absolutely no basis in fact..

Hartt writes:

I saw the whole match between Thiem and Ramanathan and I don't think Thiem tanked. He had an off day, he's human, not a machine. And even a player ranked No. 222 is capable of playing some good tennis, which is what Ramanathan did today. For example, he hit a terrific BH volley that he had to jump for and soon followed that with an excellent passing shot. Overall he was solid and deserved to win.

Andrew Miller writes:

Huh? Djokovic won 10 slams from 2011 to 2016, or ten of twenty four slams. He did the majority of the winning out there and only finished second on the dirt. Since his freefall began at Wimbledon, Federer and Nadal have reemerged in full force, with Nadal getting his first slam since two years ago and Federer his first in five years, since his 2012 Wimbledon. These are facts, Djokovic dominated for five years and players had few answers for him. Ten to Djokovic Four to Nadal One for Federer One for Cilic Three for Murray Three for Wawrinka

TP Blog Guest said:

↑

Andrew Miller writes:

It's obvious. When Djokovic is far from his winning ways Federer and Nadal are sharper and more confidant out there. Djokovic had all the answers. Now he doesn't and is very diminished. Statement of fact, Federer and Nadal had no answers for him. Now they don't need them.Click to expand…

It's not obvious at all. This is a classic case of false correlation. It's extremely simplistic. Personally I would have loved to have seen Novak of 18 months ago against Rafa at RG, or Federer at AO. It's not clear to me that the outcome would have been inevitable. You're talking about the two best players of all time, playing injury free. Novak was great, but he's certainly not earned the right to waltz to those trophies no matter what fan boys say. Next thing, you'll be telling us Murray would have beaten them too :facepalm: Why am I even bothering…

If I had wings I would be an angel. How about that for fantasy? I assume that's what we're all doing now right?

In 2011 Novak surprised to everyone how his improved game in just three months beating to anyone in most of the tournaments but 2014, 15 and 16 I think that he (and Muzz too) had both a huge advantage because Roger aging plus his knee surgery and Nadal with some injuries and appendix surgery (everything counts). I'm not taking any credit to them, both played excellent but like every single player sooner or later goes though their bodies and minds are paying for all that effort, while they are winning the confidence is on the top but when they start to lose is easier to lose more too. In one word it's dificult to see the top four playing at 100%, injuries, bad patches, lack of confidence and others issues affect their game because they are not machines but just a human beings

Henk writes:

Good to see Federberg, DarthFed and Carol setting the records straight. The most ridiculous statement on this thread: "What's been astonishing to me is how with no Djokovic to fear suddenly Federer and Nadal have bounced back so easily. Shows how much they feared him"… wow…! So Novak won 49 titles between 2011 and today, including 10 slams. For sure that's a great count, but for Andrew to also state Novak's only "leaving a bone for Nadal, a few for Wawrinka, etc. " obviously is also pretty far from the truth: Rafa won 6 slams in the same period (only 4 less than Novak and still 4 more in total), was in 10 GS finals and won a total of 30 titles. Sure looks like "a bone" and fear, not! You're also conveniently forgetting that both Roger and Rafa had very bad and injury-filled years in 2015 and 2016, but still showed up. That's how much "fear" they felt. With this type of reasoning what then is your analysis of Novak, Roger and Rafa prior to 2011, Andrew? During that period Novak won only ONE lone slam (the AUS Open) in 2008 and prior to that didn't win his first titles until 2006, whereas Rafa and Roger were raking in Slams and Masters and beating Novak on a more than regular basis….? According to your reasoning, Novak must have really feared Roger and Rafa then, or? Mine is that Roger and Rafa were simply too good then, after which Novak suddenly had a great run and played better. Now the tables seem to have turned again. It's as simple as that. No fear. It's a matter of everything coming together at the right time. Maybe, if Novak stops with his completely artificial and nausea creating 'love' stuff, he willl have a good shot again, but for now Roger and Rafa are the guys to beat and I'm enjoying every moment of it.

Andrew Miller writes:

Nadal won the French in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. That's four slams since super Djokovic emerging at the tail end of 2010. Four slams in six years and none off the clay. Compare that with his six slams in four years from 2008-2010, including significant time off for injuries. I'm glad to refer to data. What factor can explain this, with Nadal set to obliterate Federer's record back at the end of 2010 with his 10th slam, nearly seven years ago? Novak Djokovic! I don't think we should underestimate how significant Djokovic's domination had been from 2011 to mid 2016. He had by far the best record and twice as many slams as Nadal and Federer combined. Or than Nadal, Federer, and Murray combined. Murray with Lendl had a shot at Djokovic and only in front of a home crowd in England, and Wawrinka because for some reason he was a different player against Djokovic at every slam.

Andrew Miller writes:

Sorry, Nadal had six slams in three years from 2008-2010. The double of the French and Wimbledon in 2008, the Australian in 2009, and his three slam super year in 2010. From 2011 to 2017 he has been a one surface threat at slams, and that's Djokovic's doing. Federer had a pretty good slam pace himself prior to super Djokovic and then gets one over a period of six years, way off his pace. Djokovic's impact has been enormous. We have it all documented here on tp. Before his ridiculous isn't try this at home shot against Federer in the us open in 2010, Djokovic was a one slam wonder who to my eye only had one slam in him, his 2008 Australian, where Federer played with mononucleosis and dropped his semifinal in miserable form to Djokovic. He became a fine tuned machine or robot, take your pick, from 2011 onwards. Few could stop him and only for a brief period of time. He entered almost every tournament as the favorite with the exception of the French Open.

Henk writes:

Why stop at 2016 in stead of until NOW? Because Novak only won one title in 2017? You're also forgetting Rafa won the US Open in 2013(beating… yes, Djokovic), so including this year's RG that makes 6 GS titles to Novak's 10. On top of that between 2011 and NOW, Rafa has been in 11 GS finals on ALL surfaces. Would hardly call that 'bones' or fear… Why blame others for derailing a player. If the player let's himself be derailed then he's the only one 'to blame'… At least Roger and Rafa always look at themselves first, if/when something goes wrong.

Andrew Miller writes:

I'm not making it up that Djokovic had double the slam count for the half decade of his dominance, which ended in mid 2016. That's real, he was the best player by far from 2011 to 2016 and setting himself for a run at the top – he had 11 slams heading into Wimbledon last year playing at the absolute zenith of ability, and being younger than most of his top four competitors. It's not just me saying this – that was the consensus of tennis journalists who had seen it all. I don't think we can just say that never happened – there was literally no one and nothing in his way. Then, all of the sudden, he loses to Querrey, or gets ruffled by Feliciano Lopez (not unheard of to start wondering when the bubble will burst). Not to bring Kerber into this but this happened to her too, where she was playing the tennis of her life and sadly it was over before she knew it too. I'm a huge Nadal fan but for the most part I'm a tennis fan. I like Rostango as much as the Maleeva sisters or Mal Washington, or Sevastova as much as Sloane Stephens or Cirstea. I don't have any particular tennis wisdom or crystal ball. But Djokovic was by far the top dog from 2011 to mid 2016, a solid 4.5 year run as the undisputed best player alive for that period ( much like Rios was unbeatable in 1998 for several months, or Nadal on the clay for most of his career, or Federer from 2004 to 2007 off the dirt.

Andrew Miller writes:

Yes I'd say Djokovic feared Nadal and Federer from 2009 to 2010. He had nothing to show from his Australian triumph until his Federer match at the us open in 2010 where suddenly he came alive with his nutso shot. He lost to Nadal, who was easily the world's best player that year with his three slams. And then the tables turned, Djokovic became another kind of player and Nadal was not the dominant player for the last six years.

Andrew Miller writes:

Scoop I'm sure you're right, he may be a marginally better coach than I credit. I just don't remember peace and love working for other players. Guga Kuerten played with peace and love but he hired credible coaches! Kvitova tried out peace and love in bringing on Steps as her boyfriend but said no thanks to that. Love means nothing to a tennis player!!!

Maybe because the players know better than anyone else who is in his best level?

^ I know I shouldn't bite but Novak has had two different 7 match streaks vs. Nadal and the last one was 15 straight sets. He hasn't come close to anything like that against Fed. even with Roger being a geriatric compared to Rafa and Nole. Since 2011 they are pretty even in best of 3 set matches but Nole has gotten the best of the most important matches at slams.

Since 2014 everybody knows how bad Nadal was playing not only because his first wrist injury but also his appendix surgery and therefore his lack of confidence so whatever Novak did at that time was nothing to do with Nadal game, nothing competitive, nothing to compare because Nadal was in his worst level and losing against anyone not only in HC and grass but also on clay even winning RG 2014