Did Connors and Agassi Alter The Tennis Universe?

I think it’s a combination of better health and fitness, more money around in the game, on and off court, and changing social/cultural values which make a prolonged professional sporting career an acceptable activity.

Interesting topic. The reason is that the top 3/4 players we have had in the past 10 years or so have been the best cohort of top players ever. As a result, it has been very difficult for the younger generation to make a breakthrough. A bit of this topic has been discussed in TF forums.

down goes scoop – what happened in your match ?

was your opponent a softer pusher, cheater, killer ??

Rosewall was old. I agree the guys who ended up playing a while like Connors had examples before them, and Agassi had Connors and McEnroe.

Andrew – reasons we’ve discussed before why women players tend to be younger. Girls mature earlier and women retire earlier in general for family reasons. Single women tend to stay around until mid thirties.
I say ‘tend’ because there’s always Serena, who seems semi-detached single.

The new generation – I am generalizing – has an extremely short attention span. A quick look at social media and behavior by the youngest generation tells us a lot. Millenials’ patiencem stamina and attention to details is not their strongest point. We see that in companies (millenials’ fast-track career wishes and their ‘entitlement syndrome’) but also in sports.

For example, it was obvious Thiem – apart from, of course, being a little nervous – was awestruck by the Philippe Chatrier surroundings. He played lights out tennis in his five previous matches but I wonder if he took the time to breathe in and take in a filled-to-capacity Chatrier prior to his SF match vs Rafa. I’ve seen the same mistake made by junior players and their coaches at GS junior tournaments, not spending time on, for example, a spectator-filled Court 1 (the old RG center court where the junior finals are played) which subsequently hampers their game.
It didn’t help either Rafa was all over Dominic but he only converted on his very first break chance. The match – as Rafa said himself in interviews – would have changed if Thiem had made better use of his break opportunities. We all know it’s hard to convert against Rafa and the outcome of the match would have been the same, but still. He lacked the patience.

My point is that I think the ‘older’ top players are, for now, better prepared when they go into a match. In part because of experience but defintely also because of their patience if a match doesn’t go their way. Kyrgios is the best example of really having ALL the goods but not living up on a regular basis to the quality he is capable of, because of patience issues. The same goes for Dimitrov and there are other examples. These players’ focus/attention fades when things don’t go their way quick enough. The ‘older’ capitalize on their younger opponents’ lack of patience.

(Kyrgios: ” I don’t like long rallies” and he never liked praciticing on clay because “it my shoes dirty and I doesn’t want to mess up my car”…)

In real life 30 is nothing. It’s the age when most careers are taking a flight. We may have come to the point where this holds true for tennis too… When maturity sets in for the present contenders, they may have a better chance to disrupt today’s ruling order.

Playing ‘disruptive’ and lights out tennis is not enough to reach or win a GS final before turning 21, unless you are of the calibre of a Borg, Becker, Wilander, Chang, Hewitt, Roddick or Nadal. It takes a disruptive mindset too!

Henk – you seem to be saying –
Young people are impatient. Always have been.
Older players have more patience and if they also have talent, and if there are more of them around now, we’ll see the weighting in favour of age, at least for a time.
I would think that makes sense.

Maybe there’s a lot more distraction around today – with constant attention to social media and other online activities – that does affect attention span – and maybe also,somehow an increase need for instant gratification has crept in there as well, and that would, as you say, change things like attitude and preparation approach in young players.

But I’m not sure if our brains have been permanently altered yet 🙂

catherine, I don’t think we are talking about the same thing(s)

Regarding players wanting to beat Rafa or Fed, I think they do because it is so tough. They may be a bit afraid of competing against them but that does not translate to not wanting to win. I remember what Milos said after he won the first time over Fed (and poor Milos seemed to draw Fed an awful lot), “I finally beat the guy.”

Henk, true. Nadal uses every centimeter of that court. Woe to players that don’t know it well when he plays them.

And I’m not happy about this either. I like the big four, big five. They’re amazing. But I once thought the sport wouldn’t survive the end of Agassi and Sampras. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray have really delivered. Now I think the next group of champions wont be as good. But that’s not fair either. They will be fine.

Latest:

Rafa just made the right decision and pulled out of Queen’s!

Yes Scoop I think that’s very logical. A few players who aren’t as bound by their past record against today’s living legends will find their spots at the top. Pouille played with some noted abandon last year at the us open and had an interesting knack for the knockout, instinct for competition (like Bouchard of a few years back and Ostapenko this year). I appreciate it whenever I see it. Konta has this thirst also, for getting the win.

I do believe some players who aren’t top five on the men’s tour have this thirst for competition and to me their young age wont matter because they won’t play by the same rules of deference. They will do what Hewitt did and grab wins early because no one told them they couldn’t do it, just like no one told Ostapenko she couldn’t do it.

In some ways Kyrgios has slowed himself down (and Zverev hit a speed bump called veterans, or poor scouting, or bad preparation for slams, or a lack of doubles<- my favorite reason because it's a no brainer – more real life playing and more pay for low effort).

But there are others. And they are always coming!

Check this out. In Federer’s 2 losses this year, he had match point in both. Also, even crazier:
7-0 vs. top 10
11-0 vs. top 20
15-0 vs. top 50
17-0 vs. top 115
2-2 vs. lower than top 115

Scoop and those interested:

Rafa’s withdrawal from Queen’s looks even more clever now. He may not get the match practice but he has been spotted training on the lawns of the Mallorca Open.

The venue boast Wimbledon quality grass. So… who knows? He may come much better prepared to Wimbledon than any of the previous years. So all of those that think Rafa will also withdraw from Wimbledon, think again. Looks like he’s got other plans.

The Mallorca Open seems te be developing into a really good tournament. The Island secures lots of international tennis fans and tournament director Toni Nadal has been very good and active in securing star power. Vika Azarenka will be there, last year’s winner Caroline Garcia, Carla Suarez Navarro and Genie Bouchard.

Catherine, you probably know ‘your’ Angela will be there too and Toni has very cleverly secured more German players (there are always many German tourists on the island): Siegemund, Goerges and Beck will be joining WTA No. 1 Kerber.

The fact that the tournament will have Rafa on its grounds, practising daily, will surely be an extra attraction for attendees.

So, the real reason for Rafa’s Queen’s absence is, most likely, that he is supporting his uncle Toni in making sure his tournament will become THE pre-Wimbledon destination during the next years. Clever move with Rafa’s Academy near by and wouldn’t be surprised if it will grow/develop into both a WTA and ATP tournament too…

…and who wouldn’t prefer to be on beautiful, sunny Mallorca?

Henk –
I think you’ve got Angelique (Kerber) mixed up with Angela (Merkel) – and Angelique would no doubt be a bit affronted to see herself referred to as ‘mine’ – she belongs to Germany 🙂

I didn’t know she was going to Mallorca with the other Germans (she didn’t tell me – shame !) but I think it’s a really good idea. Better grass warm up than Britain which is weather wise a bit unreliable and otherwise a bit chaotic at present.
Angie likes the sun and she’ll like the low key of this event, without everyone hovering around pre-Wimbledon to see when/if she’ll win another match. And I agree with your other points – Nadal’s not stupid – this tournament could become really big.

Maybe Angie could pick up some tips from Toni while she’s around – tennis is in the atmosphere there. It’s a can’t lose for Rafa and team.

Mallorca is the ‘beautiful destination’ Angie referred to in her recent twitter surely. And there’ve been ‘difficult roads’.

Henk, Andrew – re grass court play and knee bending – if you want to see the fine art of getting down low, find a pic of BJK at W’don in her prime. And get a look at those scarred knees as well.

Scoop-
Yes, that’s happened but of course in former years much of the circuit was played on grass, of varying quality, and plays were used to the techniques required and different shoes etc. In general I think grass is a more forgiving surface than modern hard courts and players didn’t get so many stress injuries.
But I’m no expert.

My best guess has been that for slams Australia favors the most prepared player, the French favors the most talented clay players, Wimbledon favors the best athlete at the moment with the most touch, and US Open favors the best overall player at the moment. That’s how I’ve seen it (hit or miss, it’s just a proxy to explain any one result).