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Fascinating Showdown: Rafa vs Federer Basel Final
41 Comments · Posted by Scoop Malinowski in Bios
It’s been well over a year since Rafa and Fed have dueled and this time the dynamics and stakes have changed – Rafa’s aura of invincibility has been tattered by injury, layoffs, and several uncharacteristic losses – Federer, with Coach Edberg and his new Wilson, has played some of his best ever tennis this year and for the first time, with his new offensive attack minded prowess, seems the clear favorite to finally play the fearless aggressive style of tennis which can dominate Rafa – of course Rafa will attempt to breakdown the Fed backhand with his forehand, as he has so many times before – the big questions are if Fed can withstand what he know is coming to his backhand? Can Rafa endure the new Edbergized Federer? What tactical ideas will Edberg fuel Federer’s psyche with and will they be successful? Will Rafa regain his lost confidence with a big win tomorrow – his first monumental win in a very long time – and will it be the major step of returning Rafa to Grand Slam glory? My pick is Rafa in three – he will once again stymie Federer’s backhand corner which will be the key mini-battle in the overall war –
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Dan Markowitz · October 31, 2015 at 6:54 pm
There’s no way Rafa beats Fed on an indoor hard court in Basel. I just don’t see it happening, but if they were to meet in Australia in a couple of months, say in the semis, I might pick Rafa then.
Did we end the “how great is Sock discussion” once he got routined by Fed today? I just think like Nalbandian or Simon’s great runs during the indoor seasons many moons ago, you can’t take this part of the season too seriously when it comes to determining who’s really good.
CS3 · October 31, 2015 at 8:48 pm
The lone surface that Roger has had the edge over Rafa on is indoor hard court…The ball doesn’t bounce as high & Roger is able to take Rafa’s shots from his ideal striking zone… With that said, Rafa did handle Roger the last time they met on an indoor hard court in 2013 at the ATP World Finals in London so getting over that hurdle could very well prove to be big tomorrow… Psychologically, Rafa still has the edge in this Epic but very 1-SIDED RIVALRY until proven otherwise… The shorter the points are tomorrow, the more likely Federer wins but if he gets lured into extended baseline rallies, Rafa will physically & mentally break him down as is usually the case… Fed’s first-serve will be Huge… As always, it will be a privilege to watch this era’s Titanic 2 Champions collide!
Moskova Moskova · October 31, 2015 at 10:02 pm
Yep, good to see that Dan and CS3 are sober and in touch with reality…should be a cracker of a match…and all others, pls get a grip and hold your deluded excitement until if and when your prospects actually beat a tenner or push one of them at a slam…please 😉
Andrew Miller · October 31, 2015 at 10:27 pm
Sock and Johnson did well…final four or better two weeks in a row. Not like Agassi didn’t routine almost every up and coming player except Nadal.
Gans · November 1, 2015 at 2:51 am
Scoop,
I have been saying this for a while that Rafa is not finished. He has the potential to win slams- note slams!! People who questioned that are those who never learn from their mistakes!
Rivalry between these two ended in 2008. Surface differences have disappeared long ago in this one-sided contest. Roger still has a chance to win tomorrow, but it will be dependent on Rafa’s recent form and maybe, to a certain extent on Fed’s renewed net game.
The net rushing of Federer in his matches against Nadal in the past was a result of despair and hopelessness, but this time I am hoping he does with purpose, belief and authority. I would love to see Federer win this way. That will be so cool and a great inspiration for the revival of the net game. Remember, the most recent Cincinnati finals?
Cheers!
Dan Markowitz · November 1, 2015 at 7:33 am
I disagree with you, Gans. Fed and Rafa could play in a public park when they’re 40 and 35 and it’d still be a rivalry.
I was impressed by how fast Sock is. He doesn’t look fast, but he’s lost probably 20 lbs since when he turned pro and he’s got some serious wheels. The backhand for him is a problem. He can blast it, but he doesn’t have the angles. If he could work with Agassi on this aspect of his game, it’d help his chances at a slam very much. Also his inside the service line game is good, but he’s not exactly a touch player and Fed exploited that yesterday.
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 7:56 am
The points at the end of the year count just as much as they do in the first quarter, just about every player is not satisfied with his ranking and his trying to improve it – of course some players are mailing it in, just a few if any, but for most players they are scrapping and fighting hard – as evidenced by Agut saving six match points yesterday vs Johnson – Sock has not done well these last few weeks because of any free gifts, he’s undoubtedly turning a corner in his career and becoming a top ten player – I think his failure at US Open was a big motivator –
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 8:00 am
Dan, Gans is right, Rafa has dominated Fed to the tune of two to one in wins in their rivalry, that’s rather one sided – but it’s still and always will be an interesting match up because of the style contrast and the illustrious history between the two – and the hope that Fed can somehow someday figure out the puzzle of Rafa and begin to dominate – because he’s never shown that he can dominate Rafa – as Djokovic has –
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 8:15 am
Rafa leads 23-10 H2H vs Roger. Last time they played AO14, Rafa won in straights. Roger hasn’t beat Rafa since 2012.
Dan Markowitz · November 1, 2015 at 9:19 am
They’re balling right now and Fed is up a break and showing Rafa, the key, he’s not going to let the points go long, he’s attacking Nadal’s serve. My point is not that Rafa hasn’t had the advantage over Fed, but that this is always a great rivalry, wherever they play.
In today’s finals match, Fed is moving well, cutting down on forehand errors and running, covering the court amazingly so that Nadal with his so-so backhand and diminished forehand, can’t hit winners basically at all.
CS3 · November 1, 2015 at 10:59 am
Great Match & a RARE well-earned victory for Federer over Rafa on his home court… It’s a Life & Death STRUGGLE for Fed to even beat a still working his way back towards the top Rafa on Rafa’s worst surface so the chances of Federer consistently dominating Rafa are very slim at best… Indoor hard courts & grass are Fed’s chances to win in this rivalry; nothing really has changed… Federer created more chances for himself & Rafa blinked at times with some shaky errors & double faults during the big points… Enough positives shown from Rafa to indicate that he’s definitely trending upward again… Credit to Roger for a Masterful performance & Rafa competed like the sport’s top & most fiercest competitor as always! Something Special to behold watching the Titanic 2 Champions!
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 11:14 am
Great match – another classic – Fed had to sweat this one out and guessed right on that bh volley on Rafa’s fh pass to earn another championship point – one shot could have been the difference – Fed kept it together and could have choked in the third set after badly missing on that 30-all fh into the wide open court at 5 all in the second – after the match Rafa looked Fed in the eye and nicely said “I look forward to playing you in many more finals” with a little smile – I interpreted it as Rafa saying, Okay you win today at your home party but next time I’m gonna have no mercy – it had to be extra tough for Rafa to play in such a Fedlovefest atmosphere – despite the loss I see this as a positive step for Rafa and expect him to beat Fed the next time they meet – either in Paris or London – Rafa was very good today but he can be better, he missed a lot of returns at love-fifteen on Fed’s serve though Fed served very well – absolutely terrific final today —
Gans · November 1, 2015 at 11:33 am
Absolutely, Scoop! It was very, very close. Nothing really has changed much. Nadal was slowly beginning to impose his game and Fed started to make mistakes. It’s very difficult for him to play such flawless tennis as he did in the first set even on his so called most suited surface. This is nothing to do with age. Rafa will continue to be Fed’s Achilles heel!
Rafa is setting the stage for a great 2016. No one else can face the bull. The pressure will be on Djokovic to stop him. The Team Djokovic knows, it is coming and is almost here! The Serbian Tennis “MARSEC” reads, “Level 2: The Beast is only miles away. Be prepared for MARSEC 3!”
🙂
Cheers!
CS3 · November 1, 2015 at 11:43 am
I agree with you Scoop! This was Tennis magic as always between this era’s Most Decorated Champions & the charter members of the Big 3 or should I say “Terrific 3″… Federer produced some superb winners when he needed a boost which lifted him to a deserved triumph; Rafa through his relentlessness & never say die attitude imposed a lot of mental & physical pressure as usual on The Maestro… Some untimely errors & missed opportunities did Rafa in but he is headed in the right direction & seems to be finding himself again… Rafa needs to work on regaining consistency with his signature lethal “lasso forehand” & he needs to work on his serving — which has been more vulnerable this year than ever before.. Was well worth waking up around 6AM to watch on TV… What a creation Tennis Channel has turned out to be… Enjoy your day fellow Avid Tennis Fans! CS-3
Rob · November 1, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Side note: during the speeches at the close, anyone see Rafa checking his watch and making that iconic one eye brow up move? Best shot of the match.
Gans · November 1, 2015 at 1:58 pm
Yes, Rob- that was so weird! Quite disrespectful to Federer- but who knows what he was thinking!
Rob · November 1, 2015 at 2:14 pm
“First of all, also congratulations Rafa on a great week. I think I can speak for all of us: it’s like you won the final. Because to have you in the finals and come back to my home town and everybody’s home town here, it’s very special for us to have this match. So congratulations and, of course, I hope we play many more finals. Well done.”
Dans, look Fed is a fantastic blah blah blah – he is great ok. But what is with the comment ‘it’s like you won the final’?
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm
Gans – please allow me to correct you: Rafa will ALWAYS be Fed’s achilles heel 🙂 This was the time when Fed was supposed to roll over Rafa – home court, favorite surface, superb season vs Rafa in a bad season with low confidence – but still with all the advantages Fed almost – very very nearly blew this match – This was the time for Fed to pin Rafa on his back for the three count – but he merely was able to score a lucky takedown 🙂 my $ is on Rafa next time – Fed looked very good but you could see how Rafa’s b game still had him on the verge of a KO loss – note Fed’s extremely happy and animated reaction after Rafa’s ball sailed long on match point – that was Fed showing more joy today than after winning some of his majors – Fed barely escaped today –
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 2:29 pm
CS3 – Rafa’s forehand was average today, on a slower court he will torture Fed with it – he will be able to hit more balls and get a much better rhythm, today the points were far shorter yet Rafa still did very well playing in this style which is his least comfortable way to play –
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 2:32 pm
Good observation Rob 🙂 Rafa did seem in a hurry – some interesting reactions and expressions by Rafa while Fed spoke – I did sense a hint of healthy rivalric dislike from Rafa, albeit just slight – he surely respects Fed but it seemed by his reactions and looking at Fed’s backside as he spoke, he is not quite as enamored with Fed as he shows to the public – just my honest observation –
Scoop Malinowski · November 1, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Rob – that Fed comment is Fed throwing Rafa an empty bone ) Very nice comment, but just a sweet nothing in a tough moment for Rafa – sounds good for the fans and media – but it really means nothing to Rafa – I think it shows the enormous respect Fed has for Rafa and his classy sportsmanship –
Rob · November 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm
I think Rafa does have enormous respect but that comment wa I’ll placed/worded, who knows?
Rob · November 1, 2015 at 5:05 pm
Woops that should read ill placed (curse you predictive text). Basically it’s this – am I the only one that thinks it’s a bone head thing to say?
I love the guy but come on…
Bobby Hurley · November 1, 2015 at 5:58 pm
Federer winning against Nadal is tennis at its highest level. Federer has worked hard to have the complete game. He attacks the ball while Nadal tends to go for consistency. Federer keeps the game exciting. I wanna rewatch the final. Does anyone have a link to download?
Harold · November 1, 2015 at 7:02 pm
espn3.com
Tennis
Replay
Scoop Malinowski · November 2, 2015 at 8:16 am
Bobby – when you talk about the ‘highest level of tennis’ you have to have Djokovic as part of the equation – Djokovic is on another higher level than Fed and Rafa – look at the gigantic gap in the ranking points — but agree that Fed vs Rafa that in one year’s time who knows – Fed and Rafa could be one and two battling it out again for the throne –
Moskova Moskova · November 2, 2015 at 9:22 am
this win wasnt a fluke however, unfortunately, djoko’s still the player to beat in paris and at aussie and in the spring….if rafa keeps on improving until RG then he’ll have a shot at reclaiming. if rafa has another injury, etc. then he’ll be done, IMO. as will be FED, if he doesnt finally eke out a W @ wimby next year (against djoko)..
Rob · November 2, 2015 at 12:10 pm
‘highest level’ – not sure. But what two players can command such attention. I forgot the Serbian guy whatshisface for a second. There is so much drama and back story there. They are two such unique personalities, frankly, there is nothing like it. Novak does not have that kind of mojo.
Moskova Moskova · November 2, 2015 at 12:39 pm
Rob, i’m not sure what it is but you’re right…..djoko does not appeal to a lot of people – regardless of his machine-like playing and GS success.
race (former-yugo), looks (middle eastern), personality (corny), style of play (boring but effective) ???
Rob · November 2, 2015 at 12:44 pm
He is our “deus ex machina” – here to move things along until the next chapter is written.
Scoop Malinowski · November 2, 2015 at 2:27 pm
Rob – Djokovic has more mojo than any player now – the public and media just haven’t fully accepted and embraced the reality that he is the kingpin — I say a few more dominating wins of Fed and Rafa will eventually universally accepted – Novak is the ultimate tennis titan – The Djokovic Army is still building and growing –
Moskova Moskova · November 2, 2015 at 2:35 pm
hold your horses there scoop 😉
djoko does not sell well….no way he’s going to surpass the great FED or RAFA in endoresments, fanbase, popularity !!
Scoop Malinowski · November 2, 2015 at 2:59 pm
That’s precisely what they said about young Federer when Sampras ruled the throne 🙂 Djokovic is still early in his reign –
CS3 · November 2, 2015 at 8:58 pm
At their PEAK, Roger & Rafa are the Top 2 Champions of this era & the players who have produced the Highest Level of Tennis as well as matches that the sport has seen… Novak is the very worthy 3rd member of the Big 3… He isn’t facing Prime Roger & Rafa no matter how much you want to believe he is Scoop with all due respect… Roger from 2004-2007 & Rafa in: 2008, 2010 & 2013 are every bit the equal of Novak… I highly doubt Novak will ever win a single Grand Slam nearly double-digit times nor have multiple Majors on every surface… Novak has surpassed Roger & Rafa in the present, NOT All-Time & he’s not going to!
CS3 · November 2, 2015 at 9:01 pm
Novak’s reign isn’t going to last forever… He’s nearing 30 soon & the number of Slams players win from age 29 are few & far between… Novak still has Majors left in him but more seasons like 2015 are anything but a given… Just keep in mind, how much Novak came back down to earth in 2012 after his Amazing 2011… History has a way of repeating itself!
Bryan · November 2, 2015 at 11:08 pm
Even Nadal fans know he’s a punching bag to top players now. My GF’s favorite player is Nadal and I told her if she wanted we could watch. She decided there’s no reason to wake early the morning after Halloween to watch him get his butt kicked.
CS3 · November 2, 2015 at 11:26 pm
He only kicked those players butts for a decade LOL & inflicted mental & physical trauma on them… At some point, the tide is bound to turn… Rafa is finding himself… Fed barely beat Rafa at his B-level like Scoop said, even with everything in his favor… Doesn’t change the history of that RIVALRY in name only… The last few weeks don’t suggest Rafa is anyone’s punching bag… At the rate he’s going, he’ll be back to making his foes wilt & basically tap out sooner than later!
Scoop Malinowski · November 3, 2015 at 7:38 am
CS3 – even an expert champion like Johan Kriek said he thought Federer was playing the best he ever saw him play this year at Wimbledon, then another former great player said the same thing on TV during US Open – I thought the same thing – Fed played some of his very best tennis this year –
Scoop Malinowski · November 3, 2015 at 7:42 am
Bryan – think your friend girl is throwing in the towel too early on Rafa, he’s looked better the last month, but yeah that loss to Fognini at the US Open had to be disturbing for a Rafa fan – remember what F Lopez said – it’s hard for a great great player like Rafa to always keep playing his best tennis, as he has for so many years, even Fed had some down years where the majority gave up on him, Rafa will get back up and play his special brand of great tennis again imo –
Andrew Miller · November 3, 2015 at 10:32 am
Djokovic will do fine. He’s got more slam titles in him. I didn’t think he’d do it, but he has and he’s not done at all. He’s in the middle of his prime and I don’t think that’s ending next year.
As for Nadal he’s had a light year. He seems pretty fast to me and has been playing more on the baseline, so that’s good for him.
As for Federer, who knows. He’d really need to find another gear to see off Djokovic or Nadal at a slam. Would be a monumental achievement for Federer to bag a slam in 2016. Both Djokovic and Nadal pretty much know which buttons to push when playing Federer.
I’d think Murray would have something to say about this also, he has gotten himself back in form and is probably hungry for slam three.
Rob · November 3, 2015 at 2:17 pm
Look Novak is an animal. His mental strength is immense, as impressive as Fed’s forehand. But he just doesn’t make good copy. I play the game and know you lot do as well; I understand his supernatural talent level but I’d rather watch something else. In other words – no mojo.