Dominic Thiem obliterated defending champion Novak Djokovic 76 63 60 in a devastating performance which has to be one of the worst defeats by a title defender in recent Grand Slam history.
Thiem, the ATP World No 7 player, is now just two match wins from becoming the first Grand Slam major champion from Austria since Thomas Muster won in Paris in 1995.
To sum the match: Djokovic’s confidence issues betrayed after the first set. The self belief is no longer there as he has not won anything significant since Roland Garros a year ago. Thiem obviously was not at full power in their previous duel in Rome (6061 for Djokovic) and Djokovic knows it.
Djokovic was a great player when he had the burning intensity and fury to conquer all. But clearly the 30 year old Serbian does not have the same obsessive hunger and desire to be the best any more. Like the boxing champ Marvin Hagler famously said: “It’s hard to wake up at 5 am and do roadwork when you’re sleeping in silk pajamas.” If Agassi can’t push Djokovic’s motivation buttons nobody can and it is safe to conclude that Djokovic’s days as a super champion are finished.
And a worthy new young potential replacement has emerged by the name of Dominic Thiem.
French Open · Roland Garros · Thiem
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1 2 Next »Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 9:30 am
Two SFs at RG in a row for Thiem. I think he’s ready to go two steps further too. Beating Rafa in Rome is the key factor of this next SF.
Chazz · June 7, 2017 at 10:29 am
It should be a great French Open championship on Friday.
Jimmy the Gent · June 7, 2017 at 10:41 am
hold your horses there scoop..
rafa may be too tall of an order for all this RG..
my prediction :
nadal over all
if thiem –
thiem over cilic
thiem over nishi
wawa over thiem
andy over thiem
catherine · June 7, 2017 at 10:48 am
My prediction:
Simona over Pliskova
Simona over Bacsinsksy
(wrong thread but where else ?)
Re Djokovic and Agassi – right from the start both of them talked too much, on and on about how wonderful both were and ideally suited etc etc but not much actual WORK
And now – pfff 🙂
Jimmy the Gent · June 7, 2017 at 10:59 am
Catherine – agree on simona over pliskova but bacsinksy may be too hot to handle right now..
djoko & agassi are such phonies – good riddance to both..
catherine · June 7, 2017 at 11:15 am
Jimmy
The word ‘phonies’ hits a whole packing case of nails right on the head.
I’m not a total admirer of Agassi – can’t put my finger on exactly why. Didn’t even like his book much either.
Maybe because underneath all the talk he is exactly that -‘phoney’.
But of course a good husband and father. Just something about his mind.
He and Djoko together were this complete self-admiration society.
I don’t support Simona any more – she’s too successful and I only have time for underdogs (hence my screeds on A Kerber)
So Andy Murray for FO 🙂
Henk · June 7, 2017 at 12:35 pm
Not so fast Scoop!
Have been and now have become a huge fan of Thiem. Love his maturity on court and how he reacts to beating top players. His tennis and good looks will grant him a fan base on par with Roger and Rafa. A base Novak has desperately been trying to get. Dominic grew up on clay and will definitely win RG one day. It could well be this year…
…However, exactly how you describe Thiem not being at full power in Rome, the exact same thing goes for Rafa. Don’t forget this is Rafa’s court. Don’t think he’s ready to have someone else take his throne just yet.
In his best years (and this looks like becoming one of those) Rafa has lost to his rivals prior to RG but still won in Paris.
If it would happen for Thiem, it couldn’t happen to a more worthy player than him. As a die-hard Rafa fan since his 12th (but slowly becoming a Dominic aficionada too), I , of course, truly hope we will see Rafa lift his 10th here. After watching Dominic today, I’m not so sure anymore and what bothers me (and uncle Toni too) is that Rafa has not been tested at all yet. Obviously that, in part, has to do with his ruthless form but it’s been far too easy. Hope Team Nadal will find a strong hitting partner to get ready for the new (after Arnold) Austrian ‘Terminator’. Iam impressedwith how Thiem has found answers so quickly to Novak’s barrage in Rome, especially since the Lenglen is court is slightly faster than Chatrier and should have been favoring Novak. After losing two finals in a row to Rafa, he found answers in Rome too… but we all know how Rafa has responded to losses. Therefore, we cannot underestimate the ruling Emperor of Clay’s response on Friday.
One thing is sure: It will be a heck of match. So let’s simply enjoy.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 12:39 pm
Super Simona can’t be beat now – to win today vs Svitolina from 36 15 down shows that she is unbeatable right now – it’s Destiny that Simona wins this Roland Garros – zero doubt.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 12:46 pm
Henk; This is possibly the real final and yes of course Rafa count be counted out but that is how utterly impressive Thiem has been the last two years. The previous win vs Rafa shows us all and also to Thiem himself that he can do it. Rafa will be threatened and that’s when he’s at his best. We will see. As for Thiem attracting a fanbase on par with Roger and Rafa and above Djokovic – that’s quite a stretch of hope but as we know in tennis anything is possible, Halep sure proved that again today.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 12:46 pm
Yeah with 20 slams to their name they are total phonies.
Sorry guys. If 20 slams and record masters titles means phonies then what’s Thiem? What’s Halep? Are they, to use your language, hopeful phonies?
How about it’s completely unrealistic to expect any coach to parachute into a players life and jump start their slam winning after a year of sloppiness. Recall it took three years, 2008-2011, for Djokovic to get his second slam, and five years for Federer to get his game off of non slam winning creakiness, and if Nadal wins this French it will have been a solid two years since his last slam.
You may hate their pr firms or in my case my intense dislike of hiring any fruitcake guru like Pepe, which just smacks of a money grab. But their slam count is beyond reproach.
Expecting a one week turnaround or two week turnaround after a splashy announcement, not even Lendl could manage that with Murray Mania, not the first rodeo or their second.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 12:47 pm
Thiem, round of applause. I have no idea if he’ll make the final. But a huge win.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Halep beating Svitolina and such payback in the third set. Svitolina was in her own destiny match and must be crushed! But Halep pulling this off is a great result. I have no idea if she can win her semi. My sense of things is that it’s not in the bag until it’s in the bag, especially on the wta tour.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 12:55 pm
As for Agassi staying on, he may hate coaching. He really has zero to prove and if this is on his dime he’s designed it so that he can leave when he wants to. I’d guess it’s been an eye-opener for him. He probably loves Djokovic’ backhand but dislikes other things and I’d think he raised his eyebrows on the multiple bouquet thing to the women’s locker room. If they came from Mrs. Djokovic fine, would Agassi say that’s a great move, well done?
No way. It’s Djokovic’s fault he fired his entire team last month plus Boris Becker last year.
Chazz · June 7, 2017 at 12:57 pm
Here’s a question, who has more pressure on them on Friday, Nadal or Thiem? I say Nadal because if he loses, it would be an indication that the NextGen is ready to win slams and Thiem could very well be the new king of clay.
Henk · June 7, 2017 at 1:05 pm
Fully agree Scoop: Friday’s match should have been the final. Remember when Novak and Rafa met in the semis which should have been the final too? Hope one day Roland Garros will also do their own ranking and not follow ATP ranking, like Wimbledon does, basing ranking on clay results.
catherine · June 7, 2017 at 1:06 pm
Andrew – I have my tongue in my cheek a bit talking about ‘phonies’ – of course Agassi and Djokovic are great players etc. but I did have the feeling there was too much talk around, just maybe over doing the PR and raising expectations. Of course in my day (100 yrs ago) coaches, if they were present at all, were seen and not heard.
I think everyone’s a bit shocked at that 3rd set.
Simona will probably win – Svitolina wasn’t ready for her today and maybe needs a bit more experience.
There’s a sense of an absence about this women’s event – someone’s not there. I wonder who ?
Henk · June 7, 2017 at 1:10 pm
Chazz, there will never be any new King of Clay until someone equals the results of Rafa. There may be a periodic King of Clay, but they will remain Crown Princes only until they can haul in what Rafa has been doing since his teens.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 1:23 pm
Agassi did his best but what could anyone expect? Agassi to roll into town with a few jars of extra confidence? Djokovic has been a shell of himself for the last year and the only way to turn the tide is to win a HUGE match. Today was actually another step backwards for Djokovic who was expected to win, what Djokovic really needed was to dominate Thiem and then to dominate Rafa in the SF. That would prove he is back. But all we know now is Djokovic is still heading in the wrong direction. It’s evident Djokovic is a long way from his highest level of play. Or has the sport passed Djokovic by?
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 1:35 pm
There will never be another player who wins Roland Garros nine or ten times. So therefore Rafa Nadal is the all time King of Clay and he always will be.
Hartt · June 7, 2017 at 1:37 pm
Thiem is such an exciting young talent. Beating Rafa at RG is a huge task, but Dominic and maybe Stan are, IMO, the only 2 players who have any chance at all.
As far as Dominic’s popularity, I don’t think any of the current players will usurp Rafa or Fed’s spots, but there is room for another level of fandom. Thiem has a boyish charm, seems a likable guy and carries himself well in press conferences, etc. With his explosive game I think he will have plenty of fans. And he does well on all surfaces, also important for a future superstar.
Jimmy the Gent · June 7, 2017 at 1:42 pm
andrew – I’m referring to djoko / agassi’s characters & public images….definitely not themselves when the cameras are on.
that recent clip from jelena djokovic on the practice court in monte carlo is a microcosm and a sneak peek into the actual person without the mask on..
not saying they’re absolute scum but there seems to be a bigger than normal gap from who they project on camera vs. who they really are..
Jimmy the Gent · June 7, 2017 at 1:45 pm
I like wawa over andy and nadal over thiem…..but both should be cracker of a match
Chazz · June 7, 2017 at 1:47 pm
Henk, I didn’t mean “king of clay” it in a literal sense, hence the lowercase. Of course Thiem won’t win 9 FO titles, that’s absurd. What I meant was Nadal is going to relinquish clay court dominance at some point in the coming years, whether it’s through losses or retirement. Thiem looks like the obvious choice as the next dominating player on clay.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 1:55 pm
A little too early to annoint Thiem as the next dominant clay player as he has not even shown that he can win a single major yet. He looks good right now but his hardest work is still ahead.
El Dude · June 7, 2017 at 2:00 pm
If Thiem is the next dominant clay player, it will be first among near equals or, at most, something like Kuerten or Bruguera – the best clay player for a few years, but not hugely dominant over the field. And of course Rafa isn't done yet.
Denis · June 7, 2017 at 2:06 pm
A bit early to write of Djokovic. And assuming it's because he is spoiled now. He was a wealthy man before 2011 and that didn't stop him from winning 11 slams. The question is whether he can sort out his personal and mental issues.
Henk · June 7, 2017 at 2:46 pm
Hartt, I agree nobody, for now, will usurp Rafa’s or Roger’s spots and popularity. If Dominic continues performing I think he (and possibly Mischa too) could get attention at par as there’s a whole new generation of (coming) tennis fan that haven’t experience the excitement with Rafa en Roger that we have.
Chazz, no worries but thanks for the clarification. I agree with your Thiem remarks. Scoop, Chazz wrote (as you wrote) “looks like” so he’s not annointing anyone. I think we all agree
BTW Scoop we seem to agree on a lot today… see…!!! we should stay away from politics as Andrew mentioned on another thread 😉
Jimmy and Andrew, I fully understand what Jimmy says about the phoniness. He and Catherine are talking about the person and not his tennis. Ever since the RG retirement of Novak in his match vs Rafa and having the audacity to say, in the presser afterwards, that “it was a shame he had to retire as he was starting to play really good”, I have had a problem with the man’s personality and sincerity. That was magnified further when his family said: The King is dead” when he won the AUS Open vs Roger. His artificial on court antics haven’t helped either. The man has been trying too hard to gain popularity. I have seen him and his family’s behaviour from close by. The fact that even gentleman Roger lost his patience and had to shout to their box to “shut up” says a lot too. The way he, again today, treated the ball kids showed the real Novak. Regarding his tennis (before this year) I can only admire and respect his past dominance.
I have always been a fan of Agassi, both the man and the player. So, if Jimmy could elaborate why he feels Agassi is phony too, that would be nice. He obviously knows something we don’t.
Jimmy, I’m with you: Stan was his Stanimal self today so he should be able to send Murray home.
mightyjeditribble · June 7, 2017 at 2:47 pm
Always is a long time … Probability suggests that, at some point or other, assuming RG continues to exist, someone could come along and break that record too.
That being said – I don't entirely disagree with you. Wouldn't be surprised if that record is not broken in my lifetime.
mightyjeditribble · June 7, 2017 at 2:50 pm
Yeah, I agree, it's far too early to write him off. He is a champion, and he has gone through some mini-slumps before (though never anything like this). But people are fickle; think of all the times when people have written off Federer or Nadal in the past.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 3:32 pm
Absolute scum, or even the suggestion of same, makes no sense. Neither Djokovic nor Agassi are scum or even remotely scum. Sorry that’s hatred for a player. You’re welcome of course to think whatever you want, but I don’t think anybody around these parts things that harshly.
Agassi indeed was a punk and I rooted against his twenty, twenty one, and twenty two year old self back from 1990 to 1992. But I got to say I thought a lot differently of him, first because of his game and how he rode it to his Wimbledon title, and then his march back to relevance several times over in his career. Ultimately his appreciation for the sport and certainly his technical grasp of the game.
As for Djokovic I’m sorry for his one year fall from grace and somewhat dramatic fall off. I don’t think Agassi could do much even in a month. If it was Agassi’s instructions to fire everyone in sight last month then fine, I’d say Agassi is an idiot. I don’t think he did anything of the sort.
Djokovic has proven to be a unique talent. I’d guess that he has some kind of turmoil and he seems like he’s playing French Open 2010 and not French Open 2017. Maybe fatherhood has cracked him up, or he has less access to his family who used to show up every match. He’ll have to figure out what changes he wants to make and make them. It seems a bit like the dictatorship of Jelena Djokovic but who I am to make such an insinuation? Only that other dramatic drop offs like Agassi Brook Shields and Wawrinka with his ex spouse, the happiness problem really shook their court play.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 3:38 pm
I agree, I’ve written off players all the time. It’s not helpful but sometimes it’s easy to take a crack at a player.
Dan Markowitz · June 7, 2017 at 3:50 pm
Look, I can’t ever recall a defending champion getting bageled in a straight set loss. Djoko’s loss today is historic. I had a friend who knows his tennis make a $5,000 bet that Djoko would surpass Fed’s 17 (now 18) slams after Djoko’s 12 th slam win last year. The fact that he hasn’t won another slam is astounding and now he doesn’t even look like a player in the top 5 anymore (Fed, Nadal, Murray, Wawa and Thiem. The no. 6 is probably Kei). Incredible.
Hartt · June 7, 2017 at 5:13 pm
Doubles news: There are just 2 doubles matches tomorrow.
Mixed doubles final. Am thrilled that Canadian Gabriela Dabrowski and her partner Bopanna made the final They are up against Groenefeld/Farah.
Men’s SF. Doanld Young is still in it. He and partner Gonzalaez will play Verdasco/Zimonjic, who could be a big test.
Duke Carnoustie · June 7, 2017 at 5:38 pm
I don’t think Agassi or Novak are necessarily phonies but odd in his own way.
I think that Agassi never really liked tennis but he was so talented and groomed to be a champion that he had no other choice. It’s weird – we all would love to have his career but seems like Andre is ambivalent over it.
Novak seems like he was forced into the sport too because of his talent. He didn’t have a father like Agassi kicking his ass but Novak seemingly wants to prove to the world that he is more than tennis – speaking different languages and his “mission” to be a better person. Meanwhile none of it is working on the personal level.
Both these guys are way too analytical on life and just can’t roll with the punches. Hence the phony personality traits.
Dan Markowitz · June 7, 2017 at 6:56 pm
Wow, Duke, a little heavy on the analysis. Djoko clearly loved the sport and probably still does. When you pick up a racquet at 5 or 6 and are besotted with it the way Djoko was, and then you go to an academy in Germany and turn pro at 17, you love the sport. Do you always love it? No, but then do you always love your wife and does she always love you?
Obviously, AA’s and Djoko’s approach to life and tennis have been pretty fruitful as they both were major champions and they both seem to have nice smart wives.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 7:25 pm
Yes, I agree. Both Agassi and Djokovic are or will be among the greatest champions in the sport. And Agassi is ambivalent about the sport but why is he then even accepting an unpaid coaching stint? And as he said in his book he knows full well no tennis no Graf no nada.
Yes Djokovic’s leveling off hasn’t been seen since what, Wilander? Lendl’s 1990 match versus Sampras, when after his five set defeat he only won one more slam, no? Or did he?
Edberg?
Everyone drops off at some time.
My guess is Djokovic will bring back some of his old guard soon enough. Unless he and Jelena now hate them or something. Maybe he’s done. Maybe he’s not. I don’t think anyone at all knows and I’d think Djokovic doesn’t know either.
Is Kerber finished? Is Sharapova done? Will Azarenka make it back to any worthwhile form?
It’s still too early for the answers to any of these questions.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 7:29 pm
Sorry Mladenovic lost. I think scoop is right that she has an it factor and some hunger like Pliskova, with more style. I like her!
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 7:32 pm
I’m pulling for Bacsinsky over Ostapenko. Bacsinsky was playing well in Australia and I’m glad she’s done well. Now Ostapenko, who did well on the USA green clay, wow, how did she make it so far? Some of her shots remind me of Mary Pierce. Only I fear saying that knowing that her dad trolls this message board.
catherine · June 7, 2017 at 9:06 pm
Andrew – Are you sure Agassi’s coaching is unpaid ?
I’m not sure I believe in unpaid anything – not at the professional level. There’s got to be some transaction or it’s not a good relationship. No obligation there.
A few words of advice yes, but that’s not the big thing we were led to believe.
Time will tell no doubt.
By the way, I thought Mary Pierce’s father had died recently, or am I mixing names up ?
Duke Carnoustie · June 7, 2017 at 9:58 pm
Sounds like Agassi was paid to go to Paris for the Lavazza stuff he is involved with that he said in the video with Schett.
Yeah both are great champions but definitely have had odd personal lives, Agassi moreso of course. Clearly Agassi became more normal with Steffi in his life. Djoker already being married needs some normal person in his life to sort out his issues. I men why would he send roses to the women’s locker room in the middle of the tourney? Weird.
What a pair of semis we got. Is the Stanimal ready to make a statement to Murray? This is where Murray knocked him out last year when Stanimal was defending champ. He’s been money since hooking up with Vekic.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 10:10 pm
Dan; your friends bet looks really improbable right now – might as well toss that ticket.
Andrew Miller · June 7, 2017 at 10:51 pm
Ha that is funny on the Stanimal. No comment.
Scoop Malinowski · June 7, 2017 at 11:03 pm
Stanimal sure has done a good job of upping his level in the majors lately. Looks subpar or even ordinary in other tournaments but when it's GS time Stanimal always has his A game ready.
Moxie · June 8, 2017 at 12:38 am
While records are made to be broken, it took about 30 years for Rafa to start breaking Borg and Vilas's clay records, for example. Personally, I doubt most of us will live to see Rafa's clay records equalled or exceeded. Comets only cross the sky so often.
catherine · June 8, 2017 at 2:22 am
Just to clear up something: when I used the word ‘phoney’ I meant someone who’s full of hot air, a quality I felt I detected coming out of the mouth of Djokovic and to an extent, Agassi, in reports I read.
I thought both of them talked an awful lot before much coaching had actually happened.
As for ‘scum’ I’m not sure what or who that was referring to – it’s not a term I’d ever use about anyone.
catherine · June 8, 2017 at 2:50 am
By the way – there was minimal mention of the women’s event in either of the major online papers in the UK today (none in the D Tel) and no mention at all of Simona’s match – and this featuring the player who will probably win the title.
Lots about Murray of course and I suppose Konta would have been there too if she’d got past her first match.
There was plenty of time to get a report in. Disgraceful.
catherine · June 8, 2017 at 3:03 am
I mean – the LTA is forever moaning about how hard it is to get girls interested in tennis and to stay in the game but where is the incentive when the women’s event in a major tournament is largely ignored ?
Doesn’t matter if the quality isn’t always superlative – Manchester United have played some dud matches and that club is never off the sports pages.
Hartt · June 8, 2017 at 8:09 am
I was very excited to see Gabriela Dabrowski win her first Slam title when she and Rohan Bopanna just won the RG mixed doubles title over Groenefeld/Farah, a very good team. Surprisingly, this is also the first Slam title for the experienced Bopanna. It was an up and down match, with Gro/Far running away with the first set and Dab/Bop doing it in the 2nd. The match TB was close and exciting. Unfortunately, the final point was a DF by Groenefeld.
But this win was great for Gaby. She is one of those players who is under the radar, slogging it out from year to year. But with her women’s doubles title in Miami and now this mixed doubles Slam title, she is having an excellent year. She is just 25, so she can look forward to a wonderful career in doubles. Maybe she can give fellow Canuck Daniel Nestor a run for his money. Speaking of money, Gaby’s share of the prize money is 70,000 Euros. I don’t know the conversion rate to Canadian $, but that has to be a big financial boost.
Jimmy the Gent · June 8, 2017 at 8:33 am
henk – agsssi and djoko need to behave a certain way and understandably so as tennis is also a business hence they need to be sellable..
any who – some public glimpses of Agassi showing his cards include :
* his book – most of his tennis life was a charade.
** calling out Sampras (who he despises) during an exo-hit for Haiti – coming to a boil then dropping the hammer on him in public…who does that ? LOL
*** his speech manner / demeanor when he’s on camera seems awkward to me
**** this is hearsay but he was known to be a “bitch” in the locker-rooms to staff, media, etc.
Scoop Malinowski · June 8, 2017 at 8:53 am
Congratulations to Dabrowski and Bopanna! Huge win and I believe all four players were gunning for their very first major title so it must have been a nerve wracking match the whole way. Dabrowski I believe is the first Canadian born to win a GS major title (Nestor was born in Yugoslavia I believe).