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Did Roger Semi-Tank Montreal Final to Zverev?
68 Comments · Posted by Scoop Malinowski in Scoop
![FedCincyreturngoodSLIDER[1]](https://www.tennis-prose.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/FedCincyreturngoodSLIDER1.jpg)
Alexander Zverev is surging right now and playing the best tennis of his life. He won Washington DC last week and today he added his second ATP Masters 1000 title in Montreal, dominating soon-to-be World No. 1 Roger Federer 63 64.
The first set was close but Zverev took the early lead with his lethal serving and punishing ground strokes. Federer tried everything in his arsenal, including drop shot approaches and varied assaults that only he can create but “The Kid” handled everything the veteran maestro probed him with.
Federer had his break point chances to level the first set but failed to convert. Then in the second set, Federer was clearly battling to get the early break lead but he just could not earn that desired advantage. One such opportunity was miffed when Zverev’s desperation get-back skidded off the service line and forced Fed to net his backhand. Fed raged at that misfortune, seemingly screaming for a split-second at the line for costing him his chance.
Zverev continued to zap in big serves for aces and free points and sustained his slight baseline superiority. At precisely what point I’m not quite sure but suddenly you could sense Federer had become a bit casual and nonchalant in his body language. The points became shorter and Zverev took over the match.
What it looked like was that Federer had tried his very best but just could not knock Zverev off his tracks. It was almost as if Federer suddenly decided that the 20-year-old was just too good today and that there really was no reason to over-exert for this title, with the US Open just a few weeks away and Cincinnati next week.
I would say that Zverev’s superb play forced Federer to gear down from fourth gear to third. Trying to beat Zverev today would have cost too much energy and premium fuel and so the difficult decision was made to coast to the finish line and let the future ATP kingpin have his day. He had earned it.
But Federer has a feel and understanding now for Zverev’s new A plus level and he has time to analyze and calculate with coach Ivan Ljubicic to concoct a new gameplan for New York which it seems very likely they will probably meet again.
Zverev has now won two ATP 1000 titles this year and five titles overall. An achievement that not even Roger Federer was able to accomplish at the same age.
Federer won his first Masters Series title at age 20 in Hamburg in 2002 and then his second did not come until 2004 Indian Wells. In Fed’s 2002 season he won three total titles – Hamburg, Vienna, Sydney.
ATP · Federer · Masters 1000 · Zverev
68 comments
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1 2 Next »Busted · August 13, 2017 at 6:54 pm
Gee…how it is I knew someone would suggest that Roger "semi-tanked." That's really insulting to Roger. When has he NOT tried his best if he was physically able. He clearly had some physical issues in that second set. As they said on ESPN2 – at the end of the match at the net Zverev was asking Roger if he was OK, but Roger waived it off and let the kid have his moment.
Zverev would be crazy not to try to make his move on #1 right now. If he can win Cincy and the US Open he'd be right in the mix with Federer and Nadal. Federer didn't play well in Montreal and may be injured. Nadal and hard courts are hardly kissing cousins. Djokovic and Wawrinka are out for the season. Murray may or may not play the US Open. The rest of the Top 10 is mediocre at best. Number 1 is just sitting their waiting for the kid to come and get it. Nice to see a young player who's NOT squandering his talent because he's a petulant brat who'd rather be in the NBA but doesn't have the talent to play basketball professionally.
Scoop Malinowski · August 13, 2017 at 7:17 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Busted, it happens quite a lot this time of year just before US Open. How many finals have we seen close first set and not very close in the second. It looked like Fed was giving it his best but when he blew his early second set chances he became a different player. I didn't see any injury happen, just a demoralized frustrated player. It happens even to the best. Zverev was great today. Just too good. Not insulting to Federer to say this opinion. It happens in tennis on all levels. You give it your best shot and it doesn't quite go your way so you kind of pack it in, and focus on the big picture, what really counts. THE US Open. Federer's effort level definitely seemed to decline from the beginning and end of the second set. That's not insulting to say that, it's the truth. Am I supposed to sugarcoat everything I write about Federer just because he's the GOAT? No. I'm going to offer my honest objective analysis of the match.
Scoop Malinowski · August 13, 2017 at 7:20 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Federer possibly tanked the WTF in London but played the Davis Cup final. The guy is 36 now. He wants and the public wants him to stay on the Tour for as long as possible. In order to do so he will have to preserve his body and it looked like today he was preserving his body at the end of the second set. Zverev was unbeatable this week. Full credit to Zverev. Fed threw everything at him but he refused to break or crack. Well done.
GameSetAndMath · August 13, 2017 at 7:36 pm
In the interview that he gave after his SF victory, Fed said that he is happy that he is healthy going into the finals at Montreal ( but of course you never know whether players speak truth when there is a match to play the next day, with respect to injury status). He did not obviously injure himself during the match. So, it may be a semi-tank job as scoop says.
Scoop Malinowski · August 13, 2017 at 7:48 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Good point GSandM. Zverev wanted it more today. Fed wanted it and was battling full throttle – note the scream of anger at the service line for skidding Zverev's shot on break point causing him to net his backhand. Fed was locked in and going for it. But for logical reasons he decided to downgear. The young kid earned it today. Fed made him earn it and he did. Great performance by Zverev. And both players actually. Fed showed his magical variety though his serve did look different all week. Might have been the camera angle.
GameSetAndMath · August 13, 2017 at 8:13 pm
It is little bit hard to say for sure whether it is a Semi-Tomic Job or he was hurting physically. If he does not skip Cincy, it is safe to assume that it was a Semi-Tomic Job.
He was definitely vested in the match for about 1.3 sets and then gave it up. His service motion was different. His first serve rate was 51%. These things point towards some physical issues though.
We will see as to whether he says anything in the post match presser. If he does not say anything about injury, it does not mean he has none either as he might not simply want to talk about it as it may be seen as taking credit away from Sasha.
Scoop Malinowski · August 13, 2017 at 8:20 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Zverev has won two straight titles and ten straight matches. Right now I'd call him the co favorite to win the US Open with Fed and Rafa.
The Strokes · August 13, 2017 at 8:47 pm
No to tanking– that makes zero sense.
Either he was injured, or seriously off his game.
I didn't think Fed looked that good throughout this tournament, good enough for Agut and Ferrer, but not Zverev.
If he plays Cincy, he is not injured, IMO.
True since getting broken in the 2nd set, he looked like he was barely able to play.
And if he was saving himself for the USO, he would surely not play Cincy.
Maybe this: not totally tanking, but sensing the futility of a great effort, didn't bother making one. That I might agree to.
But hey–that's kind of like tanking. The Great Roger tanking???????? Say it ain't so!
GameSetAndMath · August 13, 2017 at 8:51 pm
The Strokes said:
↑
That is why it was called semi-tanking.
The Strokes · August 13, 2017 at 9:02 pm
A useful term.
To see full on tanking, go to Nick Kyrgios. Murray used to do it regularly, before Lendl.
Duke Carnoustie · August 13, 2017 at 9:53 pm
Duke Carnoustie writes:
Scoop, I agree that Roger kind of let it go at the end of the second set. He is eying the Open. Also Scoop, keep sticking to your guns to defend the white nationalists. You and them are 100 percent in the right and others are blind to what is happening in the country. Where I live – and it's similar I'd imagine to the people marching – whites are being enslaved by both black people and Mexicans. That is what this fight is about. Scoop is right that these people have to defend themselves.
The Strokes · August 13, 2017 at 10:51 pm
scoop said:
↑
Poster below writes:
"Also Scoop, keep sticking to your guns to defend the white nationalists. "
Did I miss something or has your resident loon just piped up?
The Strokes · August 13, 2017 at 10:53 pm
Fed threw everything at him?
I stated watching at 4/2 Zverev 1rst set and Fed never looked llike he was in the match.
Murat Baslamisli · August 13, 2017 at 11:05 pm
Roger played sub par all week, lost to the better player on the day. He is 36. Off weeks are going to happen. Especially when you arrive at a tournament with zero prep time. Simple really. The only reason he made it to the final was because his C game was enough for the draw he had. No reason to try to find angles that do not exist.
bobvance · August 13, 2017 at 11:23 pm
I thought Federer was pretty clearly injured, most likely with a bad back. This isn't an excuse for the loss as Zverev was serving and playing ridiculously well.
catherine · August 14, 2017 at 2:01 am
catherine writes:
I blame the beard. Roger looks like Long John Silver. He needs a parrot on his shoulder and a peg leg.
Hartt · August 14, 2017 at 5:19 am
Hartt writes:
Catherine, Mirka and the kids are in Cincy. I hope she puts her foot down about that awful beard.
catherine · August 14, 2017 at 7:25 am
catherine writes:
I hope Mirka brought some good sharp Swiss razors with her š
scoopmalinowski · August 14, 2017 at 8:04 am
scoopmalinowski writes:
Fed gave a great effort. Till the mid end of set two. For whatever reason he then coasted. No inj timeout. No sign of any pained area. Thanks Duke. The attacks on whites has to stop. The unciting anti white hatred has to stop. We have done so much for non whites. Yer the media demonizes us. Must stop.
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 8:44 am
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Nothing wrong with Fed's Miami Vice Don Johnson Sonny Crockett beard!!
Hartt · August 14, 2017 at 10:04 am
Hartt writes:
Although he probably won't acknowledge it, it was clear Fed was having a physical problem in that match. It showed up when he was serving at 2-2 in the 2nd set. Suddenly his service motion was strange, the speed was way down, and he did not even get into a crouching position when receiving, but stood straight up. Everything points to back pain. (NP) And there are many things wrong with that beard – it makes him look older, slightly villainous, and also his nose appears even bigger than it actually is!
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 10:25 am
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Why no injury time out Hartt? Why no stoppage to flex or stretch his back? Like John McEnroe said: "It's been scientifically proven: everything hurts a little more when you're losing!"
Hartt · August 14, 2017 at 10:43 am
Hartt writes:
I expect he did not take an injury time out because it would not help. It was well along in the match, so not much time for pain killers to take effect, and simply flexing the back would not be enough. I had back problems recently and the only thing that helped was walking back and forth in my apt., over and over again, to ease those back muscles. It was pretty boring! Ironically, what brought on that particular incident was sitting too much watching tennis, but the pain and the stiffness lasted for several days.
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 11:10 am
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Hartt; It looked like Fed became disinterested in winning when he realized how well Zverev was playing and that Zverev had an answer for everything Fed threw at him. So Fed dangled the slight hint of a back injury. Without officially showing any injury or speaking of any. Very vague and clever. Until Fed speaks of an official injury we have to assume there was no injury. Funny how people want to rush to believe there was an injury. These people think they are doctors and experts on Fed's body š People think there has to be an excuse whenever Fed loses. How about giving Zverev a ton of credit for how well he's playing? Why can't Fed fans do that?
Hartt · August 14, 2017 at 11:33 am
Hartt writes:
Of course Sascha deserves lots of credit for how he played. I am a big Sascha fan and am perfectly happy that he won the title. But Fed tends to be close-mouthed about injuries, and he played well at the beginning of the 2nd set. There was no reason he could not make a comeback. Then, starting in the fifth game he had a strange stance when serving and, as I said before, did not even get into his usual crouch position when receiving. I don't think he was doing a major acting job. (NP) They just announced that Fed has pulled out of Cincy. I think that says injury loud and clear. Rafa will now be No. 1.
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 11:48 am
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Okay it could be an injury. Or damage control. Losing to Zverev who Fed has beaten decisively is a worrisome loss for Team Roger. But it could be an injury, his serve looked slightly different all week but I thought it could be the camera angle or Fed revising or trying to upgrade his serve. Or adapting it because of a possible injury. But he said before the Zverev match his body felt fine. Fed has always been tricky with injuries or illness. The mono, the back, the whatever, always a haze of uncertainty. He's 36 now. He's battling kids old enough to be his son. Who have a lot more hunger and desire. Congrats to Rafa for becoming no. 1 again, this is an incredible achievement for Rafa.
Murat Baslamisli · August 14, 2017 at 12:37 pm
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/news/federer-withdraws-cincinnati-2017
Duke Carnoustie · August 14, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Duke Carnoustie writes:
I wonder if Fed will play in New York now. I feel there's a chance he may not. Tommy Paul takes down a struggling Donald Young. Folks the DY era is officially over. Scoop you are welcome since I got your back.
Duke Carnoustie · August 14, 2017 at 1:06 pm
Duke Carnoustie writes:
Bad loss for Lauren Davis. How about this Coco-Keys rematch? Should be fun.
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 1:41 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
Thanks brother. Hope Fed is okay, I'm reasonably sure he will be OK for NY. Though you have to wonder if he's now having motivation issues after winning Wimbledon, such as Djokovic probably had motivation issues after winning French Open last year. Kind of wonder if Federer is going through something like that. There has to be a letdown. And now everyone is gunning after him. Now everyone expects him to win more majors. He's no longer the aging underdog looking for one last hurrah. Bad loss for DY. He hates losing to the young Americans. I saw his fierce intensity level up close vs Kozlov at Newport last year. Young is struggling singles wise. Lots of heartbreaking close losses lately.
Duke Carnoustie · August 14, 2017 at 3:57 pm
Duke Carnoustie writes:
Meanwhile too many injuries. Nishikori pulled out yesterday, Monfils today. What is going on? Can Berdych, Raonic or Dimitrov step pup and win this week? Probably not.
GameSetAndMath · August 14, 2017 at 4:09 pm
scoop said:
↑
There is no limit to conspiracy theory. Fed clearly wants to finish as YE#1. Cincy is one of his favorite tourneys which he has won multiple times. There is no way on earth will Fed miss Cincy without real injury.
What do you mean damage control? It looks like you are claiming that if Fed withdrew from Cincy (without any real injury), it somehow puts a better perspective on his loss and so he did it. Does not make any sense to me.
Chazz · August 14, 2017 at 5:03 pm
Chazz writes:
That was not a bad loss for Young as much as it was just further proof that Tommy Paul is for real and here to stay. He is 12-3 in his last 15 matches including wins over Fritz, Jaziri, Chung, Muller, Pouille, Ruud, and match points away from beating Nishikori. He gets Isner next. Tiafoe unfortunately gets A. Zverev who I would not bet against to win another masters title this week.
Jamey · August 14, 2017 at 5:04 pm
Jamey writes:
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Front242 · August 14, 2017 at 5:19 pm
This thread is f****d sorry. No other way to describe it. Anyone could see Roger was serving like crap all week and 130-170 mph in the 2nd set against Zverev and not attempting to run down balls or return serves that often weren't far away from his reach. He was clearly injured and the talk of saving face by missing Cincinnati where they have one of his absolute favourite courts (and probably mine too as it's one of the fastest left) makes absolutely zero sense. I like Zverev and good on him for winning but let's not get carried away with stupidity either. Not like a guy who serves 51% slow first serves is gonna win. Hopefully he'll be fine by the USO or it won't be the same.
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 6:21 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
I think all players can be vulnerable to manufacturing an injury to diminish a tough loss, especially to a very young player. Like Chris Fowler said he never saw Nadal so mad after a loss as he was to Shapovalov. Losing to kids is extremely frustrating for two reasons, losing hurts and losing to a kid is devastating to the ego. It's a scary reminder that the older player is getting close to the end of his or her career. Jason Stoltenberg told me one of the reasons he decided to retire was he knew he just could not beat certain players anymore like young Hewitt. I just didn't see enough noticeable sign of injury, would have liked to see more. But what the heck, we can buy this injury and hope it's minor and he will be back for the next tournament, which I think is that tournament they call the US Open š
Front242 · August 14, 2017 at 6:27 pm
I don't get this talk of manufacturing an injury when anyone could see he was serving like crap, netting routine balls, not moving for balls even when they weren't far away and not attempting to return serves. Time to accept he was injured and move on from this silliness.
He spanked him in Halle when healthy and his movement there was light years different than last night. It's not like he aged a ton since Wimbledon. He said he didn't practice since Wimbledon. What he did was basically like going straight for your heaviest bench press with no warm up. A bit dumb and he learnt the hard way but hopefully he'll be ok with 2 weeks rest.
Front242 · August 14, 2017 at 6:46 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/840672/Roger-Federer-US-Open-Alexander-Zverev-Canada
"The Wimbledon champion's movement was severely restricted in the Rogers Cup final against the fourth seed Alexander Zverev."
Sky Sports pundit Annabel Croft believes it was a recurrence of that back injury that left Federer stricken during the second set.
"There was a point which Zverev ended up winning where [Federer] was pulled from pillar to post and had to change directions quite a bit,"
"I donāt know whether he tweaked his back but after that when he was serving, suddenly the motion went right off.
"There was no rhythm in it and he wasnāt able to rotate in the back and shoulders.
"The speed of the serve came right off and it was very, very apparent. On the returns of serve he just wasnāt moving.
"Even the walk around the court was a little bit reminiscent of how Andy Murray was walking at Wimbledon."
Front242 · August 14, 2017 at 6:47 pm
^ Seems most people could see he was clearly hampered.
mrzz · August 14, 2017 at 6:57 pm
Front242 said:
↑
Good grief at least he was not grabbing body parts. YouĀ“re not helping with this particular one Front! š
Scoop Malinowski · August 14, 2017 at 7:06 pm
Scoop Malinowski writes:
The timing of the mysterious injury is also curious – it came when he was a set and break down. But we all will believe what we want to believe. It doesn't really matter. US Open is what matters and hopefully he will be 100% there. Bottom line is Zverev played a fantastic match. Let's not forget that fact.
GameSetAndMath · August 14, 2017 at 7:24 pm
The assertion that he was missing Cincy to do some damage control and give some credence to his (allegedly non-existent) injury is ridiculous.
He is in the running for YE #1 and playing Cincy (and accumulating points) is lot more important than any perceived damage control.
No way would he be missing Cincy to do some damage control and bolster his ego by spreading the false message that his loss was due to injury if it were not the case. Get real.
I am semi-Ok with the initial suspicion of semi-tanking. But, if you don't even change your mind after he withdraws from Cincy and talk about "damage control" theory it is ridiculous.
Busted · August 14, 2017 at 7:52 pm
scoop said:
↑
How do you tank a match you don't even play? And the Davis Cup final a week later and you could clearly see in the match against Monfils – and the doubles the next day – that he was moving stiffly. Man…some of you guys are just unbelievable. Federer's won the Edberg Sportsmanship award, voted by his peers, 12 times…and has never retired from any match since turning pro and so rarely calls for the trainer that when he did it in the Aussie Open final people thought they'd spotted a dodo bird on the court…but you have him tanking matches? Unreal.
Busted · August 14, 2017 at 7:58 pm
Yeah…right…whatever. Not buying it with Federer. We're not talking about Monfils, Kyrgios and Tomic here – even Djokovic throwing in the towel at Wimbledon. And now Federer's out of Cincy with a back injury, so I guess you're going to say he's faking a back injury to save face so he can have an excuse for getting a beat down yesterday? All while ceding the #1 ranking to Nadal without a fight? OK. Alrighty then. Where's the eye roll emoji when I need it…
mrzz · August 14, 2017 at 7:58 pm
One poster on the forum also pointed it out — but I do not think it is exactly the case. The game he got broken he was broke to love — and for me it was the weirdest game of the match. Everything that happened later you could already see on that game.
Busted · August 14, 2017 at 8:04 pm
GameSetAndMath said:
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ITA. This isn't about damage controls. It's about a dodgy back on 36 year-old with a Slam event 2 weeks away. The fact that people are questioning Federer's integrity – of all the players out there – is totally scary to me. He's probably regretting his decision to play Montreal at the last minute after minimal practice the week before. He said he watned to get in some matches because he'd practiced enough this year – well, anyone who thinks he'd deliberately tank and fake an injury in Cincy when the point of playing both events was to get match tough for the US Open is smoking the bad stuff. He said he's playing for titles at this point in his career – not so he can have his integrity second-guessed by arm chair critics on the internet.
Busted · August 14, 2017 at 8:10 pm
Guess you weren't watching ESPN2 because Patrick McEnroe spotted the injury before he was broken in the 2nd set. IIRC it was either the last game of the first set or the 2nd game of the 2nd set. He mentioned that Federer was letting balls go that he'd normally run for and that he wasn't moving well wide to his forehand side. Brad Gilbert was courtside and concurred that something was off.
Front242 · August 15, 2017 at 2:54 am
There's nothing mysterious about it. He was serving crap all week and it didn't matter cos the opponents weren't even good enough to beat his C or D game till the final. Clearly a guy belting balls and serving big is a much tougher opponent so he needed to be fit and healthy to win and he wasn't. It also got worse in that match than it had been all week for the above reasons and cos he played consecutive days in pain. Zero mystery.
catherine · August 15, 2017 at 4:17 am
catherine writes:
Front242- People don't like stuff with 'zero mystery'. They don't like stuff being simple. But it often is. You've summed up pretty well š
britbox · August 15, 2017 at 5:03 am
Zverev was asked and he said there was a clear change but to ask Federer about it